Second day calling and no one has returned my call regarding interest in an appointment.

Referred by a friend, I decided to give her referral and Time Studio a try. Pros: Upbeat/Hip Great location (Fort Greene, BK) Salon/Barbershop Cons: Expensive $$$ Sloooooow - Time Management is horrible Caddy stylist drama My 3 star review is based on Overall experience with the pros and cons in mind. Let me just say, my stylist was very pleasant, easy going, and good at cutting and styling short hair (it appears to be her niche). However, the irony and joke of it all is that time management is not her strong suit, don't be deceived by the name of the salon. It is far from timely. I have made early appointments and evening appointments, weekday and weekend, and still spend minimally 4 hrs sitting, the styling itself can be another hour. Job well done to my stylist making me look presentable, but if you are a woman on the go, this place will slow you down regardless of an appointment. read more

Time Studio - Hair by Tia - Hair Salons Near Me - Brooklyn, New York

This is my second visit at this salon and I have nothing but positivity to bring. Everyone here is so professional from phone to visit. Nicy is my stylist and I love her work. I have very thick natural hair and finding a stylist in the city has been a task all it's own, but Nicy asks questions about my routines and offers suggestions before laying a finger on my hair. The first time I went to to her was for a blowout/press and when I left my hair was was trimmed, moisterized and swinging! Also, when it was time for a wash my curls came back in full effect with no heat damage. If you can get her, BOOK HER! -Peace and Love read more

Time Studio - Hair Salons Near Me - Brooklyn, New York

Stacy is no longer working at this Salon. Amanda and Heather opened their own Salon (O'Salon on Rogers Ave) and Joel works there also. O'Salon is where you should be!!! read more

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I just Received an amazing cut and Style From Miriam! I dont have the best experiences with stylist because of my hair type and the kind of establishments i visit.. Time Studio has an versatile group of stylist that as i was getting my hair done did impeccable work on various hair types. Miriam was kind and listened to what i wanted. i was skeptical and always hope for the best but expect the worst but she turned it out!! i have never been more happier with my hair. it looks and feels healthy and the style is so cute i immediatley got complements from friends and family. I really havent left a salon with a genuine smile on my face in Ages! Go to Time Studio and Ask For Miriam! read more

1. Expect ridiculously high prices. This is technically an "Aveda Salon Franchise" -- but they only SELL the products, they dont use them in your hair. Which is crazy, because i've been to Aveda Salons before and this isn't common practice. The stylists have to pay for their own products, so most of them simply had plastic spray bottles at their stations that contained either water or some off brand product. No Aveda products in sight except for whats stocked on the shelves FOR SALE. So why the high prices if you aren't using premium products? Fort Greene rent, I guess? 2. You are paying more, BUT STILL getting the typical around-the-way Black hair salon experience: -I arrived on time for my appt, but sat there for a total of 3 1/2 hours for a wash and blowout. It took 10 mins to wash/condition and 45 mins to flat iron my hair. What was I doing for the other 2 1/2 hours you ask? Waiting. While my stylist (Staci) took 3 clients ahead of me. -There's zero urgency. I often observed stylists huddled together looking at eachother's phones and talking amongst themselves. All while clients WAITED. -Prices are never qouted over the phone and NO ONE clues you in about the price until its timw to pay. -Also, NO ONE APOLOGIZED for such a long wait? The receptionist didn't say anything, nor the owner, nor Staci. It definitely feels like a "we get to you when we get to you" kinda atmosphere as a whole. Its just not worth it. read more

I have to drink, run, jump, shoot-up, take a valium---whatever it takes to edge my nervousness before going into salons. My history with hair salons is very traumatizing! Very! As a child, I'd go with my mom to get my haircut after she got her blond, bone-straight hair trimmed. Her red headed stylist reasoned that having curly hair herself, made her qualified to cut and style my mixed-race hair. All that bitch was qualified for was giving the kids at school one more thing to tease me about...a mullet. Brown-girl mullet looks like a halo-fro with a train of gauzy fluff hovering down my back. It was the 80's, ok? At 10, I finally put my foot down. My mom took me to my first "Black" salon, which took a lot of research to find in Monterey, CA. I thought the shame and 4 hour appointment was unique to this salon however, I learned over the last two decades that these are typical characteristics of "Black" salons. Thus, the need for alcohol and prescriptive Rx before my hair appointments. With the background out of the way... I love how multi-culti and beautiful Fort Greene is so, I went there and started pounding the pavement for salons. I popped into Time and the end of the day on a Saturday and these women did not want to let me in the store. Long day I guess. So, I quickly asked if there was anyone who could do anything with my hair? All of the stylists turned, considered my hair and in unison exclaimed "Amanda". Amanda is the bomb. She works with 'natural' hair, meaning she has respect for naturally curly hair and doesn't want to straighten and grease it up. Amanda resurrected my great hair cut that had grown out and gave me a texturizer that turned my kinky curls to soft waves without using a full relaxer. Unfortunately, I had this done during the humid peak of summer, so it lasted 3 days. $140 of self discovery... sigh Overall, I was very pleased with Time Salon and probably won't get liquored up for my next appt. read more

The process of finding a great hair salon for us black girls can be a long and tedious one. Nobody wants their hair to be the guinea pig at the hands of a random stylist that they don't know. However, I thought my search was over when I found Time. My stylist was Tia. She's really great, when it comes to styling - whether its relaxed or natural, long or short. She has a great personality as well. For her, I give five stars. BUT, as for everything else, I give zero stars. The girl behind the desk (when I used to go, I don't know whose there now) had the worst attitude in the world. You walk in, and she looks at you like you just killed her puppy. The other stylists are equally gross. They don't speak to you if you're not their client. The other clients are not friendly either. They barely move over on the couch to let you sit down. Basically, everybody in there thinks they're too cute. That said, those aren't the biggest reasons why I will NEVER, ever go back to Time. The biggest reason is that they have no respect for their client's TIME. I myself have sat there for up to six hours - 4.5 hours waiting and 1.5 hours getting my hair done. It's so not worth it. I have a life, people. And I now have a salon that knows how to book clients correctly, and not have 10 pissed-off women, sitting on the couch, waiting to be serviced, while the stylists take their sweet time knowing that they're not going anywhere. I'm not that desperate. On to the next. read more

This is HANDS DOWN the best hair salon I've ever been to and probably ever will be but understand that you will spend a small fortune here. Recently I've returned to this Brooklyn hair salon after a long hiatus and as Courtney said - you're hair will look amazing but on my last two appointments - that were ten weeks apart - I paid 180 (relaxer & cut) & 125 (for relaxer & trim) (w/o tips added). There is no price list so many of the stylists are just making up the prices. Of course, when your hair dressers card says 'Hair Architect' you know your in trouble. If you go...go with a FULL wallet. read more

Still on the hunt for the perfect salon, but............. I had Janelle and she was amazing. Styled my hair and gave me a great cut (or so I think; I got my hair curled so I'm not sure how it looks when straightened). I just stayed in that salon way too long. I get inpatient if I stay in one place for too long. plus it's hella expensive. my total bill + tip was $200. not the business. read more

I joined Yelp just to leave a bad review for this place. I went with my daughter today to get a haircut and when I'm there I was told that they normally don't allow children but because it was my first time they would allow it. In the middle of my hair cut the owner walks in and calls my beautician aside and when she comes back she tells me I have to leave because I was with my daughter! She left my hair HALF-CUT and asked me to leave! Worse experience EVER and the owner hid from me when she saw I was coming to speak with her. Don't go here unless you hate children too. read more

I wouldn't get anything but the basics here (wash & style) and ONLY if I were in a pinch. Customer service could use a huge boost, there's plenty of staring but not much smiling. They should also take the time out to interview new clients, get a feel for that person's hair and hair care regimen before sending them to the sink. Speaking of the sink, my washer was GREAT, my scalp has never been so clean after just a basic wash. Her work alone added an additional star to my review. The hair care products used in the shop aren't bad, but they apply it pretty indiscriminately. There doesn't seem to be much thought involved during that part of the process. In the end my hair came out okay. I didn't care for the style. Although my experience was "okay", the price was outrageous (a few bucks shy of $100) and certainly not worth it for a basic wash, blow & style. Other than the price, I didn't see much that would qualify this salon as "high-end." read more

Ironic that this place is called time studio because it seems like no one here has any sense of time or professionalism. If you come on a Saturday expect to wait 30-45 minutes past your scheduled appointment time just to be washed. Then once washed another 15-20 to be styled. In terms of the actually services. I am natural and they use wayyyyyyy too much heat in my opinion. The blow drying job that the stylist do is lack luster still leaves you roots very puffy then they put you under the dryer then blow dry you again. With natural hair is all about the blow dry! When it comes to styling they continue to use excessive heat...who still uses hot Combs! Overall three starts because my hair came out decent. But I definitely won't be a repeat customer. read more

I've been to Time Salon since I first discovered it when I walked out of the train on Greene Av back in '07. I absolutely loved getting my eyebrows razored here by one of the barbers because it was so precise. It's been a while since I have gotten my hair done there because its out of my league for prices. Last time I got my hair done at Time Salon was about a year ago before I cut off my permed hair and went natural. It definately felt like an all day experience and I recall that I wasn't all that impressed with my hair, considering the prices and the time spent. read more

I love Time Salon...My stylist is Janelle and she's absolutely amazing.. I've been there at least six times and I have always left there satisfied thanks to Janelle.. Definitely book an appointment with her..She's AMAZE!!!! read more

Nicy has left my hair flawless consistently! I love my hair each week. Not only is my hair amazing and healthy but the customer experience is top of the line. Always clean, friendly staff and very good with time and appointments. You can go here, get what you need and still enjoy your day! Worth every single penny!! read more

As a curly girl, I've searched looooong and hard for my hair guru. I've been on many a long journey and oh the money I've PAID. It hurts my heart to even discuss. But I must say, after years of searching, I keep going back to Time. Forget Curve or Miss Jessies or whatever they are calling themselves these days -- overpriced and overrated -- did you just use a buzz razor to trim my ends?!?! Eric is awesome, he gives a press and cut to die for. They have a lot of great products, too. I don't think the prices are too crazy for what you're getting. read more

Hair Designers Extraordinaire!! I know the development and history of the hair designers who work at TIME SALON. I knew them when the headmaster was at BLACK ROOTS I know them very well and they are masters of their craft. This salon exemplifies excellence, upholds perfection and delivers coiffure par excellence. Period. read more

My last visit was my second time ever going to Time. Amanda did my hair. The staff is very friendly and professional and I felt comfortable asking Amanda questions and she didn't mind answering them. The shampoo lady (I can't remember her name) is amazing!!! She has magic fingers when shampooing my hair. I needed a trim and shaping to my afro. They are pricey but if you're like me, and do not need to go to the salon often (I go to a salon about once a year), then it's worth it. My overall experience was great and I would return. read more

Time Studio - I received a wash and treatment. Amanda gave me a trim and shaped my 'fro. She did not style my hair. I did this style myself. - Hair Salons Near Me - Brooklyn, New York

I wish I had read some of the reviews before I booked and paid for my terrible, overpriced haircut. For that, I take responsibility. My review is mainly about Nicy, the stylist I was booked with for what I thought was going to be a simple & easy haircut. Like thousands of women in Brooklyn I'm natural and I wear my hair in a tapered TWA. It was my birthday & I had a very, VERY busy December and I finally had some time to take care of myself. I needed a haircut so I could be extra cute during my birthday festivities. My main, side, & backup barbers/stylists were all either our of town or fully booked (this was New Year's Weekend, after all). I looked to Yelp to find a salon/barber that does women's curly hair and Time Studio pops up. They were open, had availability, and are located in Ft Greene... I was sure it would be fine. Nope. I book for 2:30pm and show up about 15 mins early. When I walked into the salon I cheerily greet everyone and state my name & purpose. There was a young woman sitting in her chair who gave me the ugliest side eye I'd seen in a minute. The kind of side eye & attitude you reserve for someone who stole your man. She rolled her eyes at me and went back to her phone and a stylist who was already working on a client stopped her work to greet me, check me in, and direct me to the waiting area. I thought "Wow, I hope she's my stylist and not Ms Stank Eye by the door." I was wrong. Nicy comes to pick me up and maintains that same negative energy she gave me when I walked in. I lead the consultation with "it's my birthday & I want to look cute". Did she say "Oh, Happy Birthday! Let's get you together!". Nope. None of that. Just more attitude. I explained that I wear my hair in a tapered fro, close on the sides and longer on top. It's a standard Naturalista cut. She asked if I had pictures so I showed her some pics of me. Not editorial photos. Pics of me in my go-to style. She said OK and washed and conditioned me. Then... to my surprise... she decides to blow my hair out before cutting it. In the 7 years I've been natural no one has ever blown my hair out before cutting it. I was worried, but I wanted to respect her process. I work in the beauty business & I know how annoying it is when a client questions my methods so I went with it. I realize now I should have stopped her and asked her what the hell was she thinking. I don't wear my hair straight. I haven't in SEVEN years. Why cut it straight when I don't wear it that way? Her negative attitude continued through until she accidentally nicked herself with her shears. I asked if she was OK & said "I'm always burning myself with wax at work so I know how you feel". THEN she wanted to start being friendly when she found out I'm an esthetician... she found her Customer Service muscles then. When she was done hacking up my hair she re-wet it and threw in some product. I thought that once it dried it would take a better shape & I would be OK. Nicy's energy was draining and I was so ready to leave that I just paid (still tipped her because again... I work in this business) and left. When I get home, take off my hat, and really inspected my hair I was so disappointed. It's uneven on one side, the back is crooked, and it isn't blended properly. I'm mad at myself for letting the service continue and even more angry that I paid for it because NOW I have to go have it fixed... spending MORE MONEY. This review isn't an indictment of the entire salon. In fact, I remember thinking how nice it would be to have someone else in the shop doing my hair (particularly a young woman with a cute natural who I'm sure would've given me exactly what I wanted). Nicy needs more training and more experience with curly hair. There are too many women with naturals and curls to work in a salon in BROOKLYN and NOT KNOW how to cut curly hair. She's doing herself as well as the salon a huge disservice. Nicy also needs to improve her attitude. If I approached my clients with the same negative energy I wouldn't have made it a decade in this industry. I hope the proprietor of Time Studio gets Nicy trained properly and teaches her that a positive attitude and a genuine smile goes a long, long way in the Beauty Biz. read more

I gave Time Salon 2 stars only because of the excessive waiting time. Especially on a Saturday (at least 4 - 5 hours from arrival to departure). They also have very little seating and no robes (you will get wet so be prepared). On the plus side, everyone always leaves looking fabulous. Ask in advance about pricing (they are expensive for a Brooklyn salon) and make sure your stylist takes credit cards. One of them only accepts cash because he's "independent". This is not a great thing to find out AFTER your hair is done at those prices! If you have a lot of "time" then Time Salon is worth a try. I would suggest weekdays or off hours if you want to spend at least part of your day doing something other than getting your hair done. read more

I highly recommend this salon for silk press Done by either Latrice or Nicy, both are knowledgeable and honest when it come to healthy hair. My silk press is always shiny healthy full with bounce This is a long overdue review... Also the barber Donavan stays booked and busy Just in case you wanted to do a his and hers read more

I'm familiar with this salon as I have been a regular customer in the past and I've always been happy with the services. However, I am transitioning to natural hair and I have a stylist who is on vacation and I was in need of a wash and press. I was on pins and needles because it was a stylist I'm unfamiliar with who was doing my hair and you always measure their work against your stylist (although that isn't really fair.) I was on edge because she was combing the conditioner through and my stylist does not do that. So I told myself that everyone has their own techniques. Then, to be honest, I was in my feelings because someone else rinsed out the conditioner and blow dried my hair. Mind you, I didn't care because her technique was AWESOME! Low heat and she skilled that blowout! I was impressed. After the blow out, the stylist flat ironed my hair. Well I hate to say this because I like my original stylist who's on vacation, and she does great work, but the press was on FIRE!!!! My hair had body, bounce, shine! I was floored! Although I had a serious mug on, inside I was thinking, "Damn, they just slayed my hair!" This was a job well done and they took me as a walk-in which I appreciate. I subtracted one star for the cost. $105 for a press and treatment is very pricey. Comparatively speaking, my stylist is on 23rd and 6th Ave and I only pay $85. Nevertheless, I DO recommend Time Studio. read more

Janelle no longer works at TIME Studio and so I no longer go to this salon. I had a great experience during the times I visited TIME Studio, but ONLY because of Janelle. In a nutshell, the atmosphere at TIME is stuffy. The majority of the people who visit/work there have very pompous attitudes and are stuck-up. It seems that if you are not driving a luxury vehicle and carrying an expensive designer bag, you're frowned upon which is annoying and quite an "elitist" way of thinking, There also seemed to be a disconnect between the stylists/technicians and management once Donovan and Latreace became the owners. There was always drama, which was obvious. It did not appear that the stylists/technicians were treated with respect either. Some stylists only accept cash only payments which is surprising in a day and age where everything is electronic. I hated this! To summarize, too catty, too expensive for the drama and nonsense you have to see and just too bourgeois! Janelle is currently working out of The Neal Farinah Salon (owned by Beyonce's lead hair sylist) also located in Fort Greene and this salon is AMAZING! read more

My stylist, Nicy, was 30 min late, did not style my hair the way I asked, and over charged me for my service. I get my hair done every two weeks at other salons and have never been charged over $100 to get my hair shampooed and conditioned EVER! I feel completely ripped off and will write a letter to the BBB. Their website lists lower prices for wash and style with conditioner and no one ever mentioned to me I would be charged a higher price. I never would have paid this much to be styled by a JUNIOR stylist. That makes no sense especially when my hair wasn't styled the way I requested. I asked for large loose curls and instead received tight Shirley Temple curls. In addition, I was in the salon close to three hours. I'm very disappointed with this service! read more

I stumbled on their Instagram page and decided to book an appointment with Nicy. I really just wanted just a short twa type of curly look. I had mentioned rodset/twist out over the phone (I obviously was wording the style I wanted incorrectly however when I arrived she asked what does she want me to do with that after seeing my hair) I personally think that was rude professionally ...maybe she should've asked if I had a picture for an idea or look I was going for. So after I just ended up showing her a pic of a CURLY SHORT TWA I WANTED ... she told me I would have to wait for the barber..so I did. The barber didn't have any openings til about 3:30 so I waited ..I originally scheduled my appointment at 1 and apparently she wasn't aware after I sent her a message saying I'm early however I'm looking for parking still and she "thought" my appointment was at 1:30 so I gave in and said ok that's fine I'll just take my time looking for parking. So now I'm in the salon for a long time til the barber can cut a low cut ..Nicy ended up doing a semi correct on me after and washing it and put me under the dryer for a bit and that was it. That totaled to be 141 and it wasn't much to cut apparently (according to her) and she never ended up STYLING THE HAIR! I left with not one curl more like a tapered fro with to cuts on the side and a new color ...no styling product was used ever let alone a style! So I wouldn't go again ever after reading some of the reviews on here i can relate to it ALL...time professionalism and styling! read more

Hello All, I went to Time Studio for a hair cut and it was really a GREAT experience. Sunshine really listened to what I wanted and gave me exactly that and I must say I will be back!! I also have received so many wonderful comments concerning my hair:). read more

Janelle is no longer at Time therefore I no longer go to Time. Message me offline or check out my review of her new salon.

Wow! I just read some of the negative reviews and THANK GOD that that wasn't wasn't MY experience! My stylist is Damien and I will let NO ONE touch my hair except him. Luckily I have short curly hair and don't use relaxers and things. I'm in and out 1 hr. tops and my wallet is VERY happy. DAMIEN RULES! read more

After wearing hair extensions for a few months, it was way over due to be removed. I've been yearning to get a good haircut, but didn't have a particular stylist to go to--especially one that specializes in haircuts and styles. I stumbled upon Time Studio, booked an appointment and was very pleased with what they've done and how it turned out. They were very professional , diligent and insightful. I'm particular and have been discombobulated with past hairstylists (no names) and how my hair had turned out, but I'd have to say that I am/was a happy camper. I would confidently recommend this salon. Yours truly, ~H ;) read more

"My experience with Ms.Nicy has been wonderful! I like the fact that she is straight up when it comes to taking care of your hair and what products will help with your hair type. I also loved the fact that she wasn't scissor happy." Thank you Nicy read more

I'm not exaggerating when I say Donovan gave me the best haircut I've ever had to date. The five stars I've given here are purely for my satisfaction with my hair: I haven't even taken into account the pleasant shop demeanor, the friendly staff, and Donovan's warm intelligence and sensitivity. What is critical to know is that Donovan is a true professional. His goal is for you to be extremely satisfied with the result because, as he puts it, you're wearing the hair, not him! He asked me about every detail of the style that I wanted and then as he was cutting my hair paused at regular intervals to have me look in the mirror and indicate if I needed a shorter cute, more round, a different shape, etc. He has the skill of being able to start his work and giving you a suggestion of where it's going without going so far down the road that if you wanted to change direction, you couldn't. Super important for everyone but especially when your hair takes a long time to grow back! I will definitely be back to Time Studio. Well worth the price. I have never left a haircut feeling more satisfied--Donovan gave me exactly what I wanted! read more

If you've seen the movie "Brown Sugar," this is the salon Sanaa Lathan's character goes to before her date with Kelby. Granted, she probably didn't actually go to the salon, but I'm pretty sure this is where that scene was shot. (The one where Queen Latifah tells her to "dangle"). Anyhow, after having locks for nine years, I was ready for a big change. I wanted a perm and a short cut. I walked in with a natural head of hair and an incredible amount of anxiety. I walked out looking like an Essence magazine cover. Desiree is extraordinary. When I asked to see a style book, she said, "We don't have books." (This led to more nervousness on my part). I described the style I wanted and she gave me the *exact* look I'd asked for. Absolutely flawless. Don't want to wait? Try a Sunday morning appointment and get in and out in under two hours. Yes, the place is pricey, but it's worth it. read more

Leatrice is the best when it comes to hair in this salon. It's very clean and spacious and has a beautiful decor. read more

Time Studio - Hair Salons Near Me - Brooklyn, New York

Amazing salon in my neighborhood. My stylist Nicy is the best. No one does a press like her! The salon is modern and impeccably clean. I never have to wait for my appointment. Definitely recommend! read more

I went in for a full weave. The hair boutique is clean and inviting. I loved the service. I'm very pleased with my hair. I'll definitely go back to this salon. read more

After a month of experiencing an emotional hair breakdown I decided it was time to ditch my pageboy cap and get my life together. FIRST of I am very jaded about salons I have yet to find a home after leaving a salon I went to for years. AFTER years of roller setting my thick just below shoulder hair I jad a bad cut run in with some thinning scissors which ended up resulting me cutting all my hair off. The regrowth process has been less than enthusiastic considering I jhave no loyalty to a stylist and ratger wash my hair in the kitchen sink. None the less I stumbled upon Stacey at time studio via yelp. I want to thank the person who took the time to write the review or I would have never found her. She listened never laughed or judged when I said please cut what is necessary to allow my hair to contain to grow without sacrificing the length I have attained. My hair is flawless and I have found a new home. It was Not as pricey as I thought it would be wash style trim was 68$ I was so prepared to 150$ after the reviews...smh thanks Tami b. I have found a new home. read more

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Terrible service -- I will never go back. I walked in today for a much needed haircut while my one year old was with a babysitter. They said they could fit me in, proceeded to wash my hair and asked me to sit for a few minutes. That few minutes turned into an hour and a half, at which time I needed to pickup my little guy from his sitter -- precious time waisted. So they charged me $50 for the wash!!! When I got home my hair was more tangly than ever. Worst experience and worst service ever. read more

Okay I went to time salon for 2 months ... and the service just went down hill. Then the worst happen I got a relaxer and I got so badly burned I never went back. But I have to say the front desk girl got better. read more

I have very mixed feelings about this salon. I recently moved to Brooklyn and stumbled across this salon while walking down the street. I have been to this salon twice since I've moved to New York. The first time I came to this salon, it was for a deep condition, trim and blow out. It took 3.5 HOURS! and cost $85 not including tip. My stylist was Janelle. She was very good with my hair, however most of my time was spent waiting. Waiting, waiting and more waiting. Although it was expensive and took forever, I decided that perhaps the waiting was just a fluke and opted to give it a second chance. The second time I came to the salon it was for a shampoo and blow out. Again, it took 3 hours. I spent lots of time waiting. They also would not let my boyfriend sit inside to wait for me, so he had to wander the neighborhood in the hot heat. This time the service cost $70. There is no price list, it seems like they are just making the prices up. The other thing that this place really needs to improve on: TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE. My stylist was very nice, but the receptionists have major attitude. On the phone and in person, they act like it's a chore to schedule your appointment. I can't decide whether or not to go back to this place. Janelle did a great job on my hair, but overall it is very expensive and between the wait, the prices, and the overall bad attitude of the staff, I may have to look for something else. read more