LANDSCAPING: Struggled for years with moles and gophers destroying my lawn. Then came TRIVALLEYLANDSCAPE.COM . Jeff does a terrific job laying out the details and presents a professional design with pictures of what it will look like before work proceeds. I cannot recommend TriValley Landscape enough. They installed the gopher wire under everything. So no more moles! Work was done professionally and site kept very clean and tidy during the construction. Please call Jeff at 925-922-4558. See the picture of our final product LOVE IT read more

TriValley Landscape - Finished product - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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Met with Jeff to get an estimate to repair a water leak under the artificial turf. Was very pleased with his demeanor, repair assessment, and service rate. The 2 workers he sent out to pull back the turf and repair an old broken pvc joint caused by root damage were experienced and friendly. Would use them again. read more

We met the owner at our house who spent ample time going over ideas and giving his suggestions. We emailed our list of what we wanted to him as he asked and he emailed up the stamped concrete colors and patterns. I sent 2-3 emails thereafter asking for our quote. He never got back to us. He totally ghosted us and it was a good sized project. I'm bummed because I really wanted to work with him but I guess glad he ghosted early and not in the middle of the job. On 5/10: Jeff you said you would be putting together an estimate. On 5/16: I emailed you saying I was excited to review this and see our drawing that you told me you were rendering. We mentioned when we met that we could wait and wanted to see what the pricing came in as to make sure it could be within our allotted budget. I last emailed you so if you were waiting for something from us after that point, why not communicate that? Also, you must have me confused with another client. We did not meet you in March. We met you in early May. I even sent a later text on 5/21 asking if you got our emails and this was the response. After this it was silence. read more

TriValley Landscape - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

We hired Jeff of TriValley Landscape to restore and refurbish our 25 year old landscaping and he did a fantastic job for us! Jeff is very passionate about what he does, he had clear ideas & a vision for our space, and is extremely knowledgable about plants & their placement in the different microclimates of a mature yard. His artistic eye for landscape arrangement is amazing! Fast forward to completion: Jeff & his team pruned & trimmed our existing trees and shrubbery, cleared out the planting beds & old landscape material and did a full refresh of our yard. New irrigation, drainage and soil amendments were added. Sod was replaced front & back. He replaced our old raised garden beds and replaced our original flagstone walkway with a beautiful new walkway & seating area. Additional decorative boulders were placed throughout, a highlight of the yard for us. New lighting was installed. The planting beds were overhauled with all new plants, artfully and thoughtfully placed by Jeff. The result is natural, evergreen, balanced and colorful. Absolutely beautiful and we love it. Jeff's approach is collaborative every step of the way. While he brings a wealth of his own ideas, he really listens to you and demonstrates tact & understanding as you share ideas and feedback. He truly wants you to love your yard and the final product. Jeff is a perfectionist, his rates are fair and he's an honest businessman. His crew is professional and hardworking. Jeff and his team are personable & communicative and they were a pleasure to have around! Our yard restoration was long overdue and we're glad we found TriValley Landscape. Highly recommend Jeff and will look to him for any future landscape needs. All in all, the best experience with a contractor we have had! PS, Post job completion we experienced a sprinkler leak and failure of 25 year old equipment (valves & irrigation main shutoff). Jeff had an emergency crew here into the weekend and they didn't stop working until the leak & equipment failure were repaired and all issues resolved. We appreciate that he was there for us when needed in an emergency. read more

Engaged with Jeff of Tri Valley last year. Can't complete the work you pay him for, does not not have a competent crew and he's a bit crazy. He damaged my property dug holes and never filled them, broke my landscape lights, broke my irrigation and tells lies. He called the fire department on us after he broke our irrigation system. And it flooded here. Here's some nice communication from him: "You are a mother fucker I'm not paying for the damage you have to pay for it " And " and we will no longer be providing any services of any kind for you. Jeff " After he damaged everything. I called him, does not respond left garbage all over my property. Dirty foot prints etc. hand prints on walls. read more

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5 Stars because... - Jeff is awesome and really cares - Project was done quickly and on time - Project was done on budget (with a very competitive estimate) - Jeff brought a great vision for our space - All the work was very professional with NO corners cut at all We had a FANTASTIC experience with Jeff and TriValley Landscape; they have our business for life. We've been through the whole process of getting quotes and browsing through Yelp for contractors and I can definitely say that the next time we have a landscaping project come up, we're going straight to Jeff. We received 5 estimates for our backyard - from companies large and small - and Jeff was the only one who actually listened to what we wanted and then gave thoughtful suggestions based on his expertise and actually had a vision for the space. Nearly every other company asked what we wanted but never asked any follow up questions or showed any interest in providing an expert opinion. That would be fine if I was a landscape architect and a botanist but... I'm not!! Jeff is extremely valuable not only for the high quality work that he and his team does, but for the knowledge and expertise that he brings to the table, and the fact that he actually CARES. Early on in the estimate process I mentioned to Jeff that we recently had a baby and that part of my motivation for updating our backyard was to make the space more functional as a fun play space for our son as he grows up. Jeff constantly tweaked the design and approach to accommodate this ultimate goal for the space. He purposefully laid out the plants and trees so that our son could run through the landscape once it grows in (which is tricky because the hillside is steep), he brought in extra boulders to give him something to climb up on and jump off of, and consciously steered us away from any poisonous or dangerous plants. Now, with the design that Jeff laid out, we are so so excited to see our son enjoy the backyard for years to come!! I should also mention that I have strong opinions when it comes to the design and layout of our home which made Jeff's approach even more impressive. Jeff seamlessly blended his professional opinion with my particular ideas and desires which made for a really enjoyable and collaborative experience; and ultimately a final product that we are VERY happy with! I don't usually write Yelp reviews (ever really) but our experience with Jeff was so positive that I felt compelled to write one here. That should say it all! read more

TriValley Landscape - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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TriValley Landscape is AMAZING!! My mind was blown away at how knowledgeable Jeff is!! He was so awesome to work with! Best customer service ever!! The line of communication with him was phenomenal. I don't think there is another company I would use after our experience. I had called 4 different company's out for a quote 3 showed up. Not one was even close to having the best prices and customer service TriValley Landscape had!! They have a forever customer right here! Looking forward to future project with them!! read more

TriValley Landscape - BEFORE - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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Jeff was very helpful with the beginnings of a landscaping project. We had an unfortunate incident a few weeks ago with a reckless driver driving onto our front lawn and doing some significant damage to our front lawn. I did some research of landscaping companies and saw TriValley Landscape(Jeff's business) had some great reviews here on Yelp. I gave Jeff a call and he picked up first call. I explained the situation and within one day, he had viewed the damage done by the vehicle and provided me with a quote. He was very responsive with communication. Now, as long as everything goes well with the insurance company, we will move forward with the work! read more

Jeff and his crew were life savers for us. We had to let a previous landscaper go and we were a little worried about finding someone who would be willing to walk into a mess. Jeff was friendly, professional and gave us a very fair and reasonable quote. He gave us a quick starting date and even gave us amazing design suggestions. Jeff responded to every single text and phone call quickly and his entire team was friendly and professional. They were very easy to have around:) Jeff knows the name of every single thing that grows, how it grows and where it will grow best. His expertise was invaluable! We have 2 very large dogs and he "dog proofed" our yard by putting gopher wire under every inch of mulch! Ingenious! It was so fun to see the perplexed look on the dog's faces the first time they tried to dig a hole. We are so grateful! I really cannot say enough about Jeff and his crew. Jeff is just a really nice guy. His crew is incredibly professional. The work they did is impeccable and I give them the highest recommendation! read more

Seriously look NO FURTHER. Jeff came recommended from a friend I trust. Jeff was my 3rd and final bid. Instantly, I knew TriValley Landscape and I were a good fit. Jeff LISTENS to what your needs are. There is NO up selling, In fact where the other bidders wanted to replace EVERYTHING, Jeff made sure to utilize the existing sprinkler system. The plans and communications were amazing. I am so very happy with how everything turned out. It was a simple freshening up of a boring landscape, at a very reasonable rate. BONUS they maintain your new scape for 3 months who does that?! Jeff was also on site everyday to check on the work being done. When something needed to be followed up on, it was taken care of. I WILL be calling them again to do the backyard. read more

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I've use them for two projects and both came out better than I expected. Jeff is extremely knowledgeable about design and what plants will work taking into consideration the path of the sun during the seasons. Highly recommend them. read more

We interviewed several landscapers but Jeff was the one with a vision. He explained to us what every plant, currently in our yard, needed as to sun, the botanical name of each what kind of light and watering they needed. He took us to a wholesale location in San Ramon to see our future plants picking them out by name, color and placement in the yard. We had removed a pool and provided him with a blank slate and wow did he excel in listening to our ideas and making them even better! His team were on time, polite, professionals, that were tolerant with our questions and very hard working. Jeff never over promised, carefully as if painting on a canvas he provided us with a dream come true back yard. For years we could not enjoy the yard as it was 85% pool. Now it is beautiful, tranquil, and a yard we are happy to share with friends. Thank you Jeff for your service, honesty and friendship. read more

TriValley Landscape - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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We had to completely redo our backyard because the tree roots were becoming a major trip hazard and pushing up the flagstone patio and the backyard wasn't very usable. Jeff worked with us to design a backyard that was both functional and beautiful, taking into consideration all of our requests. He is very consultative and is very knowledgeable. He also worked with us to come in under our budget. The project did get delayed a lot by rain during the early Spring but he tried to dispatch his crew to work around it. Also, whenever there were areas that wasn't to our satisfaction, Jeff made sure his team made the proper adjustments. In the end, we are very happy with the transformation. Also, he came back later to replace plants and even came to troubleshoot our sprinklers in the front yard that wasn't part of the project. We highly recommend him for landscaping projects. read more

Never got a price or proposal to us. After three months, told us we'd have to look elsewhere. We had two other contractors come by and they provided proposals. before we met with Jeff in November. Liked his ideas a lot. He seems very passionate about his work. He took measurements, pictures, and videos. Said we'd get an estimate in a few weeks. We were looking forward to it. We emailed and called 2 times in December and were told Jeff would get the estimate to us after the Holidays. In January we contacted them again. Val who is quite nice, said Jeff would be out to go over the proposal on January 25th. We cleared the table ready to go over pricing. Instead Jeff came over and said "So what are we doing, I don't recall." I asked him right there if he was serious. I said."We went over all of this already" So, we went over it all again. Walked the yard, discussed the deck and the grass.. He said "I've made you wait already I'll get an estimate to you this week." Two weeks later, today, we emailed asking what was the status of the proposal. Val replied that Jeff found out his subcontractors are booked 3 months out, so we will have to look elsewhere as they are not taking on new work. It was three months between our first meeting and our dismissal. We could have been on the list 3 months ago I guess. That was our experience. read more

Jeff and his crew transformed our yard from a hodgepodge of plants to a beautiful coordinated front and side yard. When we called we weren't sure exactly what needed to be done, we just wanted our yard to look better, to have the sprinklers work, have drip watering, a concrete path, and have the flagstone path repaired. Jeff knows what he's doing. He choose the best plants for us considering sun, shade, soil, and watering conditions. It was obvious that everyone of his guys understood what he wanted and followed his directions. He, Antonio, and Chase worked hard to make sure things were done right. We are so happy with the results. read more

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Tri Valley Landscape gets 5 stars from me. The owner helped me tremendously when he was the only contractor of 5 that I queried to provide a quote on a patio repair where the previous storm had uprooted a tree and damaged a portion of the 1,000 square foot tiled surface; other contractors thought the job was not profitable enough for them unless they could demo and rebuild, which I could not afford. Tri Valley did such a good job on the patio repair that I asked for an a la cart quote on a refresh of our 12 years old back yard. Very transparent pricing, was clear how much I would pay up front. They cut down and hauled off all the old ragged growth, planted new plants, laid new sod, spread mulch on all the beds, and even constructed 8x4 raised vegetable planters. We also chose a few areas for decomposed granite hardscape to save on water, which blended in with the overall look. The design process was easy and collaborative, the owner (Jeff) has a deep knowledge of native and non-native plants which really helped us choose a drought hardy final design. Finished landscape looks great ! read more

TriValley Landscape - DG Area with winter grass in the planters. - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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Jeff and his entire team redid both my back and front yard. They were great to work with, very attentive to my vision, and able to provide great insight throughout the entire project!! I am so happy with the result! read more

I've only written maybe 1 review on Yelp. Ever. However, I was so impressed and pleased with the work Jeff and his crew did, I had to write one for him! In the past, we had landscaping work done by Swanson. They did an okay job, but he was very hard to get in touch with, especially since he left to Europe a week into our project (without telling us!) and my husband was out there fixing most of the mistakes his crew was making, while I was inside with a 2 year old and one week old infant. It was awful. Fastforward, 3 years later. We had to find another contractor and really dreaded the process, as it seems we have never found someone who is decent. We took a chance with Jeff and he went above and beyond our expectations! We got about 4 bids and my husband said out of all the people he interviewed for the job (plus the ones we've had in the past) he was the most knowledgeable. His pricing was great, compared to others. They put in new sprinkler systems in the front and backyards, new sod, plant landscaping, a new gate for our fence and stepping stones. He was an excellent communicator and very involved from start to end! He worked with my husband who was very picky. My husband changed his mind about plants, placing of the plants, etc. so many times and he was very particular on how things should be done, but Jeff was very patient and did everything exactly how he asked each time...even if it meant re-planting or returning and searching for hard to find plants. His crew did a great job cleaning up at the end of the day, as well. They also put in really good soil, which previous landscapers failed to do. Most importantly, he did exactly what he said he'd do and didn't try to cut corners. Lastly, they finished everything right on schedule, even with the Thanksgiving holiday and a few rainstorms. In the past, usually contractors were months and months off schedule (during the summer!) from what they first predict. Our neighbors also had this issue. He left us a very lovely "surprise" poinsettia on our doorstep at the end of the project. So thoughtful! We're so pleased with how things turned out and we will be using him for all our future landscaping needs. read more

TriValley Landscape - Backyard: new sprinker system, sod, landscaping, and we will put a playstructure in the corner. - Landscaping Near Me - Pleasanton, California

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Jeff and his crew are great. I arranged to have a yard cleanup done at the last minute at a rental property I own in San Ramon. He took a look at the property, suggested some cost effective upgrades, and came in at a very reasonable estimate. He and his crew did the work quickly and professionally over the next two days, and even threw in a minor cleanup to my personal residence in Dublin at no cost. Jeff is knowledgeable, efficient, and friendly. I highly recommend Tri Valley Landscaping! read more

My already landscaped yard had just gotten ahead of me and definitely needed TLC. Jeff was able to come over and look at the yard the same day I called. He and his crew came the following few days and did an amazing job of trimming, adding new plants and refreshing the mulch. He had fabulous suggestions for a side area , such as placing a French drain to prevent mulch loss when it rained and was able to add a drip system for the shrubs. Also had very old, well established junipers that were no longer wanted. Apparently there were possible problems with underground equipment. Jeff had all the proper inspections arranged and afterwards proper care given to a clean removal. Definitely would recommend Jeff and his great crew! read more

We have been trying to find a landscape company to assist us with relandscaping our back yard after removing our pool. Jeff came out quickly, spent a little time looking over our yard, then came up with a plan that was creative, utilized much of our existing plants and trees, and was reasonably priced. He and his crew worked hard to get everything completed in a timely manner. We highly recommend them. They really did an awesome job! We will be calling them to do our front yard soon. read more

If there was 0 star, I would have given them 0. I just called them to get a quote for my project. He refused to even come down and look at my project to give me a quote. Like, how do they even do business?? So he was telling me that I only work with customers who are ready to start their projects with us. So am I like blindly suppose to just hire him without even telling me first the quote or any estimate??? STAY AWAY from this business!!! I am glad I got to see his real side before I even started any kind of business relationship with him. OMG, WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE EXPERIENCE EVERRRRRR!!! Sorry Tri-Valley you just lost a big project!! No I live in DUBLIN!!!! I told the guy over the phone that I live in DUBLIN. read more

After a year of neglect, our backyard pretty much turned into a weed jungle. I called number of places and I am glad I picked Jeff and his team to transform my backyard. Jeff always answered my calls and couple of times he wasn't able to he promptly called me back. He listened to my specific and vague ideas and requests and gave number of designs to review and pick. I really appreciated his great recommendations based on my vague thoughts! He finished the work on time and even came by couple of times to make sure everything was OK. Thanks to Jeff, our family is finally able to relax and enjoy the backyard! Can't wait for Jeff and his team to do our front yard next. read more

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Jeff and his team did a fantastic job on my front yard. My yard had many overgrown bushes and trees. Jeff trimmed all of the plants, so that they are back to their proper shape and look so much healthier. He was honest, on time and did a great job cleaning up. I highly recommend TriValley Landscape. I plan to use their service again. read more

I've been searching for a landscaper for awhile. High bids, working 4-6 months out, and while I just want a simple yard, they always want to add in all kinds of fancy touches - I guess to make themselves look good. Then I found Jeff from Tri Valley. He actually LISTENED to what I wanted for my yard. He was knowledgeable about every option, familiar with every plant and grass possible. Where I didn't have ideas, I could say "just make it look good" and he DID - but also, he did it within MY vision, which was a simple, hassle-free drought tolerant yard. Because he listened and kept it simple, his bid was much lower than the others. And I was shocked when he said "we'll do it next week!" 5 days of work and my yard is transformed. Water wise, drought tolerant, colorful and just downright beautiful. I absolutely love Jeff & his guys. Highly recommend! read more

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Jeff and his crew were a pleasure to work with throughout the whole process. Jeff actually answered the phone himself when I called to schedule an appointment for a quote. Even though my project was smaller than he usually does (about 200 sq. feet), he still made me feel like my job was important. He came out very quickly and gave me a very fair quote. I had also received 2 other quotes. Granted it was the winter time, but his guys were here the next day! They were very quiet and professional and got right to work. Within a day they had the area prepped and within two days the concrete was poured. It was a fabulous experience. I HIGHLY recommend using TriValley Landscape! I will be using them again. read more

We're very pleased to provide this solid and positive review of TVL. After 20 years of painfully average maintenance and care, our entire yard (front, back and sides) sorely needed a refresh. Using general guidelines including cost, timing and design parameters, Jeff proposed a low maintenance solution and his team went to work. After a bit more than just one week, the entire project was completed. Old growth was removed and new plants were in place. Now two weeks later, the front yard lawn repairs are taking hold nicely, and our backyard has been 'opened up' and transformed into a park-like setting, while also highlighting our four coast redwoods and two birch trees. With all this we're also using less water (a careful nod toward proper water conservation), and our yard has simply never looked better. Jeff was sensitive to our cost and time constraints, he made valuable recommendations about plants that could thrive based on sunlight and shading, his team was on time, professional and polite, and we couldn't be happier with the results. read more

Jeff is extremely knowledgable and shared with me his little tips and tricks about plants and soil and irrigation techniques. He helped me create a beautiful, artistic space that I can truly enjoy. If you are looking for a talented landscaping team that does quality work with a cheerful disposition Jeff and TriValley Landscaping will not disappoint you. I was referred by a friend and I must say the experience from beginning to end was delightful and worth every penny. I will definitely pay this referral forward. read more

I highly recommend Jeff for your landscape project. My husband and I needed a major remodel to our backyard. We are so pleased with the end result. We were interested in reducing the amount of water our yard requires as California always seems to be in a drought. Jeff worked with us to accomplish this goal using native drought resistant plants. We also got new hardscape, artificial turf, irrigation and landscape lighting. His team put our new pergola together too. The end result is beautiful and we can't wait to host friends and family in our new backyard. We've lived in our house 29 years and our yard has never looked better. Working with Jeff was a pleasure. read more

Couldn't have been more pleased. Jeff and his staff were timely, communicative, and professional from start to finish. First he met with my husband and I to find out what exactly we wanted. He offered suggestions but wasn't pushy. We had certain plants we wanted to keep because they had sentimental value. He worked around those, so that they would blend in beautifully with the new look. This to me is a true mark of a great business is how it handles these situations and accommodates its customers. After hearing what we wanted he gave us jaw dropping visuals that transformed our home! He was timely and it was affordable. The crew was friendly and worked hard. What more can I say? Oh one more thing: he followed up after the job had been done and told us we can ask him questions for years to come. A great deal when you consider we now have an expert in our back pocket. Thank you TriValley Landscape! read more

Jeff and his crew did a great job. We re-landscaped our front yard and are very happy with the result. I highly recommend TriValley Landscape. I plan to use their service again. read more

They do not service the Alamo Area even though they come up as servicing alamo area. Booked an appointment and day of appointment they cancelled because they don't service Alamo, would have been nice to know sooner was looking forward to using them. Happy to update yelp. Jeff called me to say that they will be getting their license to work in Alamo! I am looking forward to having the opportunity to work with them. read more

We used Jeff Harlan to have our backyard completely re-landscaped this year and couldn't be happier with the results! We interviewed several companies during the planning process, but upon meeting Jeff, it was clear that he had a deep knowledge of plants, trees, soil, irrigation and everything landscape. We were impressed with his great customer service and willingness to listen to our ideas. He was extremely patient with us during the design process, since we were very particular about how we wanted to the yard to look. Our backyard was "challenging" because it had a poor irrigation and drainage system, faulty rain gutters, and a slope that caused flooding and pooling after storms. Jeff and his team decided to level the entire yard before beginning the project -- a huge task - but well worth it, to alleviate all the previous problems. They installed a drip irrigation system in place of our outdated sprinklers that were ruining our fence. They also tore up and hauled away our awful concrete patio and replaced it with an awesome stone tile patio. Compared to the other companies we interviewed, the price for the amount of work they did was totally reasonable and we got all the plants and trees we requested. As the project progressed, he never tried to upsell us on anything. The price he quoted was the price of the project, period. Jeff's team of workers were very professional and worked during normal business hours. They were always conscientious about not blocking our driveway and making sure our neighbors' driveways weren't blocked as well. The end result was amazing! We now have the backyard of our dreams. Next we'll have them do our front yard as well! We look forward to working with Jeff and his team again. read more

I Hired Jeff to take out some overgrown hedges. He did so at a fair price and exactly when he committed. The crew cleaned up well. I will definitely be using these guys again! read more

Our small backyard needed plant help - I needed to create privacy along our fence line and also wanted a clean and modern but low maintenance look bordering our grass areas and driveway. I called several places and while many would do the physical work if I picked out the plants, I couldn't find anyone that would also take the reigns on specifically what plants/trees to plant where. I am not a plant expert nor do I have the time to become one. I found Tri Valley Landscape on Yelp and am so grateful. Jeff was incredibly responsive and knowledgeable. Walked the space with me twice to make sure we were on the same page and then sent digital lay outs of what he had planned so I could see exactly what the plants looked like and could make changes if needed. He was up front about all costs, and also worked with me to cut costs when necessary. He sent me lists of plants that he would recommend but was also totally fine when I asked him to just do what he wanted and make it look good :) His team was efficient, respectful and never left a mess. I would highly recommend Jeff and Tri Valley Landscape! read more

We are thrilled with the work that Jeff and his crew completed in our yard. We wanted to beautify our yard but didn't know where to start. I met with Jeff and he came up with a vision to transform our yard and give us more privacy. During our first consultation I mentioned to Jeff that I wanted a new patio, but didn't think it would be in our budget. He offered a solution to revamp the existing concrete and extend the patio with pavers. The result was a beautiful "new" larger patio at a fraction of the price of tearing the old one out. Throughout the entire process, Jeff was attentive, responsive, reliable and extremely knowledgeable. His crew was hardworking, timely, respectful, and very good at what they do. We were so pleased with the results in the back yard, that we asked them to do the front yard as well. Jeff is very passionate about what he does and genuinely wanted us to be happy with the result. We got exactly what we wanted and stayed within our budget. I have no hesitation recommending Jeff and his team! read more

Jeff came out and helped me out a lot. He has great ideas and vision on what to do with a yard. Very honest and reasonable even with my budget he spent a lot of time with me explaining everything. I highly recommend his company if you are looking for ideas or help with your yard he is the guy. read more

Jeff Harlan and his gang did a magnificent job in landscaping our front, side and back yards. They installed a water-saving drip system and sprinklers for the new grass areas. I'm very pleased with the results. read more

Called and left voice message. Never got response. Maybe business is very good and just not interested in small projects.

As a Pleasanton Realtor I was always looking for a good landscaper, once I used Jeff Harlan @ TriValley Landscape my search was over, get a hold of him @ jeffreyharlan@gmail.com / 925-922-4558, he has done a great job on four homes I recently sold and he has already started the landscaping work on another one of my own homes I'm selling. He has great ideas and does great work, he also has reasonable prices too! read more