We had a long day and did not want to drive to go out for food. We split a sandwich. It was tasty. Service was adequate. It's a hotel bar so nothing fancy though it doesn't need to be. We met some nice people at the bar. read more

Tried BRG twice during a recent stay at the adjoining DoubleTree hotel and had two completely different experiences. Let's dive in! First visit was on a Friday evening around 9:30pm. The bar and lounge area looks very relaxing and intimate - the type of place I imagine people visiting to unwind or catch up with friends. Unfortunately, it was deserted for a Friday night when the hotel attached to it was packed with guests. There were only three of us there... kind of disappointing. The bartender was less than helpful. Definitely not a people person. He made us one round of drinks and then informed me that they were closing in 20 mins. Never got our water that we asked for. Never thanked us for stopping by or invited us to come back. Just stood at the end of the bar on his phone the rest of the time we were there. Sad. It also seemed strange that they wrap things up at 10pm on a Friday night. You literally have guests packing the hotel connected to his place, and all you can draw in is a measly 3 people? Second visit was for dinner the following evening. We sat directly at the bar where Juan welcomed us, took our drink orders and brought us some water while we browsed the menu. First up was the firecracker shrimp appetizer, where the shrimp were cooked perfectly and had that classic firecracker flavor. Overall, a good choice. I took a different path when choosing my main entree and opted for the Turkey Avocado Club Sandwich with homemade chips. This sandwich was amazing. I can't pinpoint exactly what I liked so much about this sandwich. I mean, it's a turkey club, but with the avocado and Sriracha sauce it definitely hit the spot. We hung out for a bit, talking to people and having another round before paying the bill and heading back to our room. Overall, this place has its highs and lows. They do have a specialty cocktail menu and the prices are very reasonable. Juan is a good guy who deserves some recognition here as our bartender/server. But our experience the night before with a different bartender was bad, and it seems that others who have been to BRG echo similar experiences with various servers. The food menu doesn't offer many options to choose from. The hours of operation are limited to only breakfast and then dinner between 5-10pm. The exterior of this place definitely needs a makeover. From the outside, you cannot really even tell that they are open, and the appearance looks dated. I really had higher expectations. read more

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Food: 8/10 The menu is small, but the food was good. My friend's cup of water was not washed properly, it had residues of syrup in it from someone's past meal. The cheese curds were ok, some crispy and warm, while others were a bit cold. We were a little skeptical at this point, but when the burgers came out, it redeemed for all the past mishaps. My redemption burger was absolutely the bomb. It had a nice garlic aioli sauce on the brioche bun, along with onions, bacon, American cheese, and 2 juicy patties. The fries combined well with the burger to create an explosion of flavor. Service: 9/10 The waiter was very kind, he conversed with my friend and they related to each other because they had the same cultural background. It took about 20-30 minutes for the burgers to arrive. Ambiance: 8/10 The restaurant looks a bit old, and a bit dark inside, so you don't think it's open or has a lot of customers, but it is actually nice and clean inside. It has the feel of a wooden cabin to it, sort of like Great Wolf Lodge. read more

Birch River Grill - Redemption Burger - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

Man what a bizarre place. It felt like a time warp from 1994 with the music on the loudspeakers -- seriously outdated. This place is the restaurant time has forgotten. We ate breakfast here twice (adjoining hotel is the Doubletree). There must have been 20 people having breakfast here and there is ONE SERVER. WTF?!!!!!!!! I'm convinced he was also the COOK!!!!!!! Food was passable but I'm still amazed that there is ONE server for an entire restaurant. Insane. There's no other option if you're staying at the hotel. Poor server was running ragged. Management needs to step up their game! Go somewhere else if you can......... read more

It was pretty quiet on NYE which is exactly what I was looking for. 5 of us showed up for dinner and our waiter was extremely nice and effective. They did mess up on one of the steaks and it took the kitchen forever to replace it but they did end up comping us that steak to make up for it. I had the short ribs, which had no bones. I was quite surprised. It was really flavorful and tender. It came with perfectly cooked asparagus and gently sweet sweet potatoes, it even had some really nice chunks inside the mash and it was so yummy. I highly recommend the short ribs. read more

Birch River Grill - Short Ribs - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

We used to leave 2 minutes away from Birch River Grill. I just found a picture from last year. My boyfriend took me to Birch for our small anniversary. Atmosphere was okay. Staff is very friendly. I don't know if I was super hungry or what. But OMG! This Ahi Tuna is just one of the best dishes I've ever tried. That was definitely the best ahi Tuna called "Blackened Mahi Mahi". Highly recommend it. Even though we moved, I would love to come back there for another date. read more

Birch River Grill - Blackened Mahi Mahi - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

In town for business decided to eat at the quant restaurant attached to a double tree Hotel. I had the Pork chop bone in, it was outstanding with green beans and mashed potatoes. The service was on point and the atmosphere is great for groups or just a couple as it's very spacious. read more

Birch River Grill - Bone in Grilled Pork Chop - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

We stopped in here only because we passed it on our way to Denny's. If I had caught on to the fact that this is a hotel restaurant, I wouldn't have stopped. The food was actually pretty good. Just about 4 stars, but that was the only redeeming quality. It was dinner time and we were one of only 3 tables seated and the service SUCKED!! The staff were rude, inattentive and SLOW. Refills for your drink - ONE in over 45 minutes. Prices were out of line for the service, location and portion size. Skip this place unless you are stuck at the hotel. Or better yet, go to Denny's (about 150 yards down the parking lot) and save a few bucks and get better and faster service... read more

This is bs they stat this to come in happy hours is a lie , turn it around when in there it's only Monday to Thursday also a rip off food cold like there customers service , place is not only expensive for crumbs and bad food but they rip you off penny pinchers just terrible hotel service and zero personality and respect go to motel 6 , manager is bad with customer service to over charge and you have to fight to get your money back read more

Birch River Grill - Lies to bring you in then plan changes - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

After driving around for an hour getting turned away by 30+ minute waits we finally decided to try Birch River Grill which was on our list. Walking in on a saturday night at 8 and it's pretty dead should have been our sign. The nachos were room temperature and greasy / bland. I ate them with a fork and ate a lot because I was starving otherwise it wasn't worthwhile . My girlfriends vodka cranberry was below average. The dinner was just meh. The atmosphere wasn't good. I'd just not come back unless it changes. read more

Been here once before for brunch , then just went for dinner on Saturday night around an hour before closing. Was pretty dead , had only 1 other table filled and a patron at the bar. The bartender was the waiter as well, even though there was a woman who brought us over to a table, assumed she was the waitress. Service was decent up until it came for the check.... took the bartender a while to take the check from us and process it, had to call him over since he was in a conversation with either a fellow co worker or another bar patron. It took awhile for the complimentary bread to come over before our entrees came. Bartender was nice , but slow at times. The pasta dish was bland... unless you ask for more cheese or add salt to it yourself. Steak entree wasn't too bad, but salt still needed to be added to it. May just go for brunch again instead of dinner next time. read more

Birch River Grill - Pasta entree.... pretty bland , unless you ask for more cheese or just need to add salt . - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

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We found this restaurant on the Open Table website. It was a fantastic place for a family Thanksgiving breakfast. From the location (just off the tollway) to the service, to the good food (we ordered off the regular breakfast menu), in addition to the great prices, we might have a new family tradition. We will be back - long before next Thanksgiving! read more

Hard to screw up a burger but this place managed to do it. 2 overcooked patties dripping in grease served with Mayo and a raw onions almost inedible read more

So at first glance you might think this restaurant has some class. In reality it's just a well decorated senior daycare for those that venture out or their hotel room. Beer selection is garbage. Whiskey selection is garbage. Wine selection is extensive garbage. Food is made from quality ingredients. Unfortunately they ruin everything they touch. Salmon is extremely dry and overcooked. read more

Directly connected to the DoubleTree Hotel; a real plus for hotel guests. Nice cozy lounge area kept warm by a large fireplace. Full service bar with friendly bar staff. Breakfast, lunch and dinner available. Breakfast served buffet/help your self service. No instant eggs here! Good but limited selection. You have your norm of scrambled, hash, bacon, sausage, oatmeal, dry cereal - you get the point. Dinner served a la carte. I had the Cobb sald. Big enough for two! Overall nice spot if you don't want to venture from the hotel. read more

Never again. It was close to 9pm on a Thursday, and we wanted to try something new, so we headed over to BRG to use a Groupon. Upon arrival, we saw a sign to walk up to the bar to be seated. The restaurant is big, but there were only 3 tables occupied, and two of those were 1 tops. We were seated and offered menus by Gina, the only server on staff (there was still a bartender and bus boy). We were brought water and bread by the bus boy, but we had to flag down Gina after waiting 20 minutes to place our order. She was either chatting with the bartender and busboy (who we could clearly see across the room), or hiding in the kitchen. She doesn't refill our water or even deliver our food. What in the world is she there for? The food arrives (by bus boy, of course). My husband ordered the Grilled Marinated Skirt Steak, which he found tasty, albeit his grilled onions had a terrible texture and were impossible to cut and eat. I ordered the Chervil crusted Pike. DO NOT ORDER THIS DISH. It was terrible! I was given two very greasy, overly deep fried pieces of fish. I immediately regretted my order, but given the terrible service so far, I didn't risk the chance of saying something about it. Gina never came to check on us anyway. Finally when we were done with our meal, and the bus boy cleared our plates, we waited around another 15 mins before she came by and offered dessert. She returned with dessert menus, and then disappeared again. It was going on 10 mins that we were waiting AGAIN, and then my husband finally walked up to the bar area where she was again chatting with the busboy and bartender. We placed our dessert order to go. As we were walking out, the bartender looked right at us, but didn't say "Have a good night" or anything like that. Tell me, if your establishment is looking to increase its business by Groupon deals, don't you want to make sure you treat all your customers right so they come back? Although there were a couple things that sounded interesting on the menu, due to this experience, we will never return. read more

We decided to try the heavily advertised Sunday brunch on a cold, snowy Sunday morning. We had no expectations, but were pleasantly surprised by the dining room's decor, food selection, and taste of everything. Since this restaurant is in a hotel, we were a little nervous about crowding, but our fears were for nothing. It was nearly empty. We sat in a very comfortable booth, and the friendly wait staff explained where everything was, and offered us drinks. Due to extreme eating, we did not last long, nor did we get to try the lunch items. Too full on the breakfast stuff! I did manage to eat a delicious slice of peanut butter pie (from the beautiful dessert table) after all of that. It was great while it was happening, but I paid dearly with a classic stuffed turkey feeling. Great spot, nice atmosphere, pretty brunch----you can't go wrong here. read more

Birch river grill has that indefinable hotel restaurant feel and expense account pricing to match. There is a feeling of mediocrity designed to serve a mostly captive audience. Once you sit down you will be wishing you could escape. Upon arrival we were told there were no tables available despite the place being half empty. They directed us to the bar without even an offer to take our name for a table. Eventually we got a table and the service was still slow. The chili we ordered was luke-warm. The steak salad I had combined tepid lettuce with lukewarm meat. The dressing was bad the salad was surprising small and missing some of the ingredients listed on the menu. All in all the worst steak salad I have ever had. To top it all off there was a cold breeze going through the place most of dinner like someone had forgotten to shut a door to the 15 degree day outside. I won't be going back. Even if you happen to being staying the hotel the only reason to eat here is if you are too lazy to put a coat on. There are many better places to eat in the immediate area. read more

I could rave about this place forever, but thats a long time. I started going to RBG 3 years ago, when my mom, hubby, and I decided to find a place for Thanksgiving. Yes, we are one of those lazy people that have people cook for us just to avoid the hassle :) I was incredibly impressed when I walked in. The place is huge, well lit, modern but not overwhelming. It had a Eastern European/Finnish feel to it, with river and birch themed decor (shocka!). I love birches, and large birch tree branches in the main hall were a beautiful addition to the ambiance. The meals were to die for, especially a summer squash soup. I am drooling as we speak, thinking about its rich creamy texture and a sweet/ spicy flavor. The meal is huge, with a complimentary sour dough bread basket in the beginning. The wait staff was extremely nice and prompt, and there were barely people in there. Which is pretty typical for that place. Overall, love it, love it, love it. Needless to say, I have been there plenty of times since then. read more

This is a hidden gem. We had an hour wait at Cooper's Hawk and decided to try someplace else. We walked into a very cozy, warm, friendly restaurant. Service was wonderful. Food was great. They certainly catered to us. Don't miss this place! read more

Three stars for a totally ordinary experience. A coworker and I stopped by for a fairly late dinner the other night, we each had an entrée and shared the firecracker shrimp appetizer. The appetizer was delicious but could've been presented better. It was just thrown on the plate over top of some reasons it could've been presented in a more appetizing way. For the entrées we each had fish - one had Salmon the other had some sort of whitefish, I forget which one it was. Best part of the plate was the vegetables which were perfectly cooked and seasoned, probably a different cook from the one who did the main dishes. Side of mac & cheese was very good but needed the saltshaker. Both pieces of fish were slightly overcooked, not seasons and did not taste very fresh. Yelpers gave this place an average of three stars and they were right. Not lousy but far from delicious. read more

We really enjoyed our dinner tonight and would definitely go back! We started with the onion soup & wedge salad. Entrees included mushroom ravioli and northern pike. The mac n cheese which came with the fish - so rich & delicious. The mushroom ravioli - unique as can be - like tender wrapped pillows of goodness! EVERYTHING was delicious. I would highly recommend this restaurant. read more

Weird experience. The server was the bartender and then later a guy in street clothes. We were the only people having lunch/dinner at about three pm and the bartender and I think the cook were watching a baseball game when we came in. We weren't told of drinks on tap but were just brought a wine list. It's a big spacious place with odd seating. Food was ok a bit -overcooked -I would pass on this place. $$$ and Cooper's Hawk is down the street ! read more

Service at the bar was prompt and food came out quickly for dinner. Pulled pork sandwich is a winner, nice portion, seasoned well and good value. read more

Good food, fast service. Try the quesodillas. They are part of a hotel but even so the food is good. The service is great. tip: get a restaurant.com coupon for this place read more

Birch River Grill - Dining room - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

Yesterday my hubby wisely chose this restaurant for a lunch meeting with a short-termer of ours soon to leave for a mission to Thailand. No blasting music, no roudy customers- perfect setting for a good meal and significant conversation. I "only" ordered the Express Lunch - half sandwich, soup, beverage. Just perfect. Wasn't sure I would like the cream of carrots soup, but it was delicious! read more

Since my original review, I've been back here twice. All three times, I had the Cobb salad. Because it really, truly, is a beautiful thing. Very generous with all key ingredients - bacon, grilled chicken, and avocado, Perfect in every way. For my 2nd visit, prior to the Cobb, I was feeling adventurous and ordered the Wild Game chili. Bison, wild boar, and andouille sausage. Piping hot and just effin' delicious. Was too full to even think about asking for their signature $10 carrot cake. It was on my 3rd visit - FINALLY - that I was able to order the carrot cake and even begrudgingly shared it with my pal. Okay, actually, I was kinda full from the Cobb salad and they just so happened to move faster with a fork than I was able to. Oh. My. Gosh. It was three layers and round like a mini birthday cake and just TOO CUTE. And still plenty to take home for those midnight munchies. Was it spectacular? Eh, it was good but just carrot cake, after all. But the presentation was delightful and YES it is worth 10 whole smackers to plunk down for it. Sure, service has been a little slow considering I have never been there when it was actually busy. And I've had to flag someone down for a water or iced tea refill on each visit. These things don't bother me when the food is good, though. And maybe I just happened to stumble on the ONE dish (the wonderful Cobb salad) that they perfected and consistently deliver on, and if that's the case, fine. I don't plan on deviating from what has made me very happy three times in a row. read more

If you've read some of my previous reviews you know that I HATE fat on my meat. I'd rather have bread and water than a huge sandwich marbled in fat. Which is why I'm usually disappointed when I order pulled pork at a restaurant, even proud barbeque places that brag their meats are 'slow cooked in a smoker all day' (like JD's Q & Brew or the Rack House) . So I was encouraged when I went to a neighborhood 'Taste of' festival and tried Birch River Grill's pulled porch. It was tender, tasteful and not a trace of fat. But I've been surprised before by restaurants that deliver a great meal once, but can't do it consistently and I end up being disappointed the next time I try the same dish I enjoyed previously. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH BIRCH RIVER GRILL. I took a chance and had lunch there today and pressed my luck by once again trying their pulled pork sandwich. Honestly, it was even better than at the festival. It had a tasty coleslaw and onion strings on top and came with their own baked potato chips. I will return again for their pulled pork and hope that I've finally found a place I can consistently get this favorite treat. (One side note. The guy I was with got the reuben, and he said it was very delicious, but he was disappointed there wasn't more meat on it. He is however a guy who enjoys HUGE sandwiches for lunch like double bacon cheese burgers. So from his perspective, there probably wasn't enough meat on his reuben. I know I couldn't finish all of my meal because of the portions.) read more

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I work around the corner and have now gone twice for a beer after work. This place is meh. Brian W. has it spot on, that feeling of mediocrity and the wishing to escape. I came here on my own initiative and must say I wonder why. Maybe because it is convenient and there do not seem to be other bars around. The greasy hair waiter is a Hubbard-Street-lounge-wanna-be and doesn't belong here. He is more interested in shmoozing with the other waitress or just not give a shit about serving customers. Service is mediocre and the beer selection is pretty lame too. Meh. read more

Food C+ Service C- Parking F Went here for New Years Eve before hitting a comedy show and I was not impressed. Didn't realize it was attached to a hotel until we got there. read more

This is a hotel bar. Expect to pay 4.75 for a bottle of beer. Bartender didn't offer a menu. I was sure I couldn't afford it anyhow. Had my one beer and left. read more

My husband and I met here for lunch one day, and there were I wasn't really wowed by the place. On the plus side: 1. The food was good. Definitely give the chili a whirl. Lots of fixin's come with it, making it a step above the rest. 2. The decor is fabulous - so unlike the neighborhood (in a positive way). 3. My glass was never empty. This is a huge plus! On the negative: 1. Our meal won the award for the slowest lunch ever! And this wasn't because they were super busy and our waiter was frazzled. No - we were one of three tables in the entire restaurant! Regardless, it took 20 minutes for the appetizer, another 15 after we finished the appetizer for my husband to get his soup, and then we had to wait again for our entrees. It just dragged on and on and on. 2. It was a touch on the high side for lunch. I think their menu prices may be the same all day long. Regardless, a $10 sandwich, had better be a mighty fine sandwich! All in all, the food was good. It just wasn't worth the time it took to prepare it, nor the price. read more

Wow, what can I say, this was a very disappointing restaurant. When I entered the restaurant for dinner, there was no one to great me and no signs telling me where to sit. So I walked around looking for a seat, when I found a server and asked her where to sit, she told me anywhere. After I sat down I was provided water and bread rather quickly. While the bread was a nice touch, it wasn't anything spectacular. After a rather noticeable wait, my waitress finally came and I gave her my order. While she wasn't mean or anything, she had no personality and was trying to hurry me thru my order. Anyway, after a minute or two, the bus boy who brought the bread returned and gave me my iced tea. I then went to eating bread and drinking iced tea until.....the bread was gone and the iced tea was gone. Usually this wouldn't be a problem, however for this restaurant, it was because noone came to refill it. While I waited for a refill I saw other waiters go to other tables but noone came to check on me until I finally flagged down a bus boy for a refill. He pleasantly complied and refilled my tea and water. After a noticeable wait, my meal arrived (again, served by the bus boy, not the waitress). I ordered the black and blue salad for $14. Reading the description and seeing the price, I thought it would be a great salad, however when I got it I was rather disappointed, it was small, the meat was lukewarm and the onions were inseparable. Anyway, hungry as I was, I ate the salad all by myself, without anyone saying hi, filling up my drink or just stopping by to check on me. When I finished my salad, I looked around ready for the check, however noone came. So I pulled out my phone and started to write my yelp review, while I'm typing the bus buy finally comes and clears my table, however I still haven't gotten my check from the watiress, so more then 10 minutes after finishing my meal, I ask the busboy for the waitress and he fetches her. When she finally arrived I asked her for the check and she returned rather quickly with it. Thinking she would be right back, I placed my credit card in the check and left it at the edge of the table for her to see. Then I waited....waited....waited.....until she finally returned.....10 minutes after she gave me the check. Not wanting to make this meal any longer then it should be, I signed the bill and left. Overall, I don't know why this restaurant is even paying for this waitress, the bus boys helped me more then she ever did and based on the service I received, they would be a better waiter then she is as a server. She was very inattentive and unreachable, if the restaurant would have been busy I would have understood but it was NOT busy and they had staff just sitting around. (with that said, I did notice that another table with another waiter appeared to have good service, however my table and another table who had the same waitress both had bad service!) For tomorrow's dinner, you can bet I'm going to take that 1/4 mile walk in the rain to another restaurant, because being soaking wet and cold is way better then being captive in a restaurant and wasting $20 wishing you went somewhere else. read more

Birch River Grill - The black and blue salad, smaller then it looks and only tastes so-so, not bad just nothing special - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

Wow - If you are a chili fan and don't try this, you are truly missing out. Incredible. read more

Birch River Grill - American Near Me - Arlington Heights, Illinois

I went to visit family staying at the Doubletree, which is where the Birch River Grill is located. With that being said we went there for dinner with out any expectations. As we walked in I remember thinking the decor was great although a little confusing since it had a modern appeal until I stumbled upon the mounted deer head. After walking into the place and seeing the setting I instantly thought the meal would be great. However, I left thinking they should have put less time in decorating the place and more time into perfecting the menu, which by the way is over priced for the food they serve. Our group of five ordered turkey pot pie, chervil crusted northern pike, rib-eye, meatloaf and black and blue salad. The only meal that was good was the black and blue salad. The turkey pot pie crust was unfinished and somewhat slimy. The perch which I assumed would be pan seared tasted deep fried and was very greasy, but the mac 'n' cheese was great. I never tried the rib-eye and to be honest I am not a steak person, but it seemed fatty and tough. They service was great, but not enough to mask the terrible food. read more

I had the same impression as the other unsatisfied reviewers: good-ish food, but simply not worth the cost or the bad service. I came to this appropriately-decorated hotel restaurant hoping for a spin at the 5-star promise of delicious food at a wonderful place, as sold by other reviewers. I truly wish my experience had been anywhere closer to theirs. Instead I got a slim menu, with interesting choices albeit poorly executed, priced at best-of-Chicago seafood level, delivered via mind-bottling slow, uncommitted service. Perhaps Thursday night is not their night. I, however, got the impression that this mediocre hotel restaurant is putting its best effort forward to remain simply that. Someone should tell their marketing people to stop bothering with deals and promotions. On the plus side, the older crowd sitting at the bar seemed to be having an okay time; and, a couple of tables across, the chatty tipsy traveler that monopolized our waitress's time probably left thinking he received great service. So, if you are looking to share drinks with half-a-dozen traveling strangers, or perhaps chat up a procrastinating staffer in a hotel-lobby setting, do visit around dinner time! read more

I'm torn between giving this place a 1 star or a 2 star. Having dined there on a Thursday night, the place was not busy at all. Decor is not the greatest but it's not a looking place either. It had more of a ski resort/cabin feel to it more than a hotel restaurant. Service was...strange. The guy who seated us was kind enough to take our drink order. A few minutes later our server shows up asking for our drink order. When we told her the young man already took our order she looked surprised and confused. The menu was small and again...strange. They had bison, duck and other not-so-ordinary meats on the menu. The bread they brought out to the table was stale. Our table ordered the fried calamari; it must have been re-fried several times because all we could taste was the oil. Bison chili was brought out...cold. Beans were uncooked too. The most simple (and safe) dish in my opinion was the mac n' cheese with chicken. Ummm, how do I put this in a polite way? It was...not savory or flavorful. Actually, I had to add salt and pepper to give it a little flavor. And I never like to add salt to my food. Just not a good experience. Wish we never went there. Waste of money. read more

I had a groupon for this place (it was $25 for a 3 course meal for two!) The food was great! The waitress would give us one course then ignore us for 30-45 mins. It was a little fustrating. Overall if you forget the waitress the place is modern yet cozy and was a nice place to go. The prices weren't too bad and I may consider going back again without the groupon. :) read more

Waitress was rude. Food was on the more expensive side and was below par with taste. It was the middle of a weekday and the restaurant was empty besides one other table so I would have expected service to be more attentive. read more

Service was poor. Menu selection limited. Broasted chicken was blah. It is one of my favorite mid western delights. This restaurant has no idea how to make it! Even the flavored butter tasted old. read more