In all my 40+ years of going to the dentist, Dr. Kami and his staff are by far my favorite! Everyone is very knowledgeable, patient, and do their best to make you feel comfortable and relaxed. They really put the patient first! I included some photos to demonstrate the process of getting and making a crown in Dr. Kami's office. I wish I could put them in order, but yelp doesn't seem to have that function. I numbered my shots instead. In any case, they use a wand connected to a Computer Aided Design and Manufacturing system, to take images of the mouth where the tooth will be replaced with the crown. Similar to using Photoshop, the technician isolates the shape of the tooth. This information is sent to another machine where the crown is milled, based on the three-dimensional model provided by the computer scan. With this process, there's no need to make an impression of the mouth using that awful goop that makes you want to gag. Next a block of ceramic material is put in milling machine (the one with the blue water) where the crown is formed. After about 25 minutes, the crown is finished and then tested for size in the patient's mouth. At this point, it's a light purple color at this point. After the technician files the crown down for proper fit, she places it in a small kiln-like oven, that heats the crown at high temperature for another 25 minutes, until it is fully "baked." When it comes out it's close to the same color as the original tooth. It is then ready to be filed some more for fit and put in the patient's mouth. All totaled the process takes under two hours. No temporary crown. No uncomfortable goop-impressions. No need wait two weeks for the permanent crown. Very satisfied! read more

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I have been going to Dr. Kami for almost 25 years. My mom went to his father at the same location. My sister still goes to him, my husband, my brother-in-law, several co-workers, and ex-coworkers. That says a lot right there. He is personable to the MAX. More importantly, he genuinely cares about you and your oral health but also manages to check in on what is going on with you personally every six months without being the least bit phoney about it. Not an easy task in my book! I have moved to LA for 5 years (big mistake that I can tell you about at another time) and tried to go to someone else but ended up making the trip to Berkeley to see Dr. Kami instead. He is that good! He will NEVER sell you on some latest gimmick or cosmetic improvement. He has skilled hygienists that are not only skilled in their craft of cleaning teeth but also in the art of conversation. They make sure to know specific things about each of their patients to make it a personal experience each and every time. Run, don't walk to see this rare dentist star! read more

Yes, Dr Kami and his staff are nice and their facilities are also nice and clean. But I must say this place is overrated. First, the price.. they are ridiculously expensive. With insurance, I had paid over 3,000 to fix my teeth. Second, their schedule is not flexible. It is pretty common that your next appointment available can be two or three months later. After I paid so much money and still have to wait for the next appointment, I decided to switch my dentist. After all, this place is very business oriented, very effective to suck money out of their clients. That's my impression. Update 05/18/14 I had them make a crown and was charged around $800 WITH insurance. Recently, my partner went to Dr. Cavali and did the same thing. I was curious how much he would be charged. It turned out that he was charged only $130.. this place might empty your wallet unless you are rich. read more

Dr. Kami is the Holy Grail of dentists. I've been a patient for nearly three years and I probably wouldn't switch dentists even if he no longer accepted my insurance... he's that good. I had two small fillings today (really just restoration of old fillings) and the procedure was completely painless. And even though my work wasn't major, Dr. Kami still took the time to call me at home this evening to make sure everything was feeling A-OK. Talk about stellar customer service! I can't say enough good things about this dentist, which is saying a lot since most of us typically don't save our positive thoughts for descriibing dental work. read more

I adore Dr. Kami!!! Getting dental work done use to be one of my biggest fears until I started seeing Dr. Kami. Not only is he incredibly professional and thorough, but also totally down to earth and compassionate. He does everything he can to make sure you visits are painfree, and never never pushes you on services you don't need. Even his staff is as cool as he is. I could write a hundred great things about him...he's even called me at home to check up on me after having a filling put in. read more

Dr. Kami + my teeth = LUV He is the most friendly and talented dentist I have ever visited. You can tell he truly loves his work and cares about the health of your mouth. All of his staff are equally wonderful and competent. Plus, Dr. Kami doesn't cheap out with the generic toothbrushes. Only the finest brand-name Oral-B for his patients. Dr. Kami is all class. read more

I started going to Dr. Kami two years ago after my old dental hygenist retired. Boy oh boy am I glad I switched! Dr. Kami's office is like a well-oiled machine - you're in, you get teeth cleaned, and you're out within a half an hour, but they NEVER make it seem like they're pushing you along & rushing. The entire staff is incredibly friendly, and Dr. Kami himself is extremely funny, compassionate, and full of good cheer. I kept thinking I was catching him on a "good day" until I realized that he's just like that! He also called me personally after giving me a filling to see if I was ok, and when I gave birth to my son, his office sent me flowers. Dr Kami's office reminds me of what first class must feel like on airplanes - like you're receiving the best care, like you're special, and like you deserve top service! read more

I haven't been to a dentist in over 4 years. I've always been afraid of the expense, being a college student/recent graduate and all. But, today, I gave in and went to see Dr. Kami and my coworker's recommendation. I seriously could not have asked for a better dentist! I was apprehensive, since it had been so long since I'd seen a dentist. I thought I would have so many cavities and that it would cost me a fortune (since I needed all new x-rays, too...it's been almost 7 years since I've done those buggers). But, Dr. Kami was really awesome and I didn't feel like he pushed anything on me. He was really great about explaining everything he was doing, and why. He also gave me a few 'down the road' options, since he knew I can't afford all the treatments I should get. I felt really comfortable with him, and his assistants. Again, everyone explained everything they were doing, were really gentle, and really personable. He also explained that if I ever need anything, anytime, call and he'll get back to me that day. I go back for my actual cleaning in a few weeks, I'll update based on the rest of the experience then. For now, I'm incredibly impressed! read more

I've been seeing Dr. Kami for 30 years, and have had quite a bit of work done (fillings, crowns, night guard). The work of Barry and his assistants is top-notch, and he's good with novocaine - I've never felt any pain at all. They have state-of-the art equipment, like a crown milling machine. Equally importantly, they're all wonderful people who really care about their clients. I leave feeling happy. If Dr. Kami gives you a filling, he calls you that evening to make sure you're OK. I love this. read more

I cannot say enough good things about Dr. Kami and his staff! The man has cured my fear of the dentist! Who sends a thank you card to their dentist? THIS GIRL! He's personable and listens. And whatever his note system is, it works, because I've never had to remind him about how hard it is to get me numb (and how that's what scared me away 10 years ago from ever going back to a dentist). He even remembered and asked how my family was (the city they live in and everything). He's just an unbelievably kind person. I hadn't been in 10 years when a tooth chipped and I was forced to find a dentist back in November. The reviews were so wonderful on here that I called, they got me in that same day for a quick check-up to make sure everything was ok. After that I made an actual appointment to get the usual xrays and meet and greet with the dentist. Because of money I've had to slowly work my way through my dental work. In November I had one cavity filled. I didn't feel a thing. He even called and checked on me that evening ( I was amazed). This week (end of April) I had three more cavities done. I wanted to just knock them all out at once. Extensive work. I was in that chair for over an hour. I didn't feel a thing and he drilled away and his staff that did the actually filling part were amazing as well. And he called last night to see how I was doing. Even when I no longer work in Berkeley, I will always be back for my dental visits! Always. read more

Barry makes my teeth shiny and happy! I've been a faithful patient for the past three years, and i wouldn't let anyone else tweak my teeth. the office is beautiful, more of a spa setting than a doctor's office. The reception staff if friendly and helpful, they answer questions patiently and work with you to make sure you keep your cleanings on schedule. the technicians who perform routine teeth cleaning are wonderful. I've had two "major" (well, as major as I've ever had) procedures done with Barry. I had my teeth whitened (10 years of smoke stains gone! yay!) and he filled my first (and so far only*knock on wood*) cavity. i told him i was a bit freaked out by needles, and he called in one of his assistants in to hold my hand while he administered the novocaine. laugh if you will, but i thought it was incredibly thoughtful. obviously, I'm a big fan of this place and you will be too. read more

This is a review from my visit on March 15, 2016. Dr. Barry Kami is an honest dentist who truly cares about his patients. I visited him for restorative work after root canal therapy. When he found my teeth were too thin, he stopped the restorative process and informed me what he was seeing and his concerns. I very much appreciate this as patients are often kept in the dark about things that are crucial to the health of their own teeth. He communicated clearly with me about what he found, the potential risks and benefits of accepting this treatment. Then he gave me options for alternative treatments and then referred me to specialists to explore these alternatives and be more informed about my situation. I deeply respect his ability to respect the patient's rights and best interests; engage me fully in the decision making process. His assistant Kristina was also very nice. When I asked her to give me the notes she took during consultation, she was helpful, sending me the notes by email on that day. What happened to the old dentist in the neighborhood who remembers you as a member of his community and cares about you? Dr. Kami will treat you as if you are one of his family members. I recommend anyone to his dental practice. read more

I have been going to Dr. Kami (which means paper in Japanese) for 3 years. I have a VERY high tolerance to Novocaine and not a large desire to be in pain. Dr. Kami always makes sure i'm doin fine through everything; which for me has meant 6 new filling, 2 replacements, deep cleanings, and a crown since we met. Every time i have work done in the office he calls in the evening to make sure i'm doin all right. He's AWESOME!!! They are renovating the office, please note the temporary location on Telegraph - NOT University. This unfortunately sucks, because it's mostly all meters; versus the permanent location closer to bart and with a parking lot. Can't wait to see the new building in '09 read more

I have been going to his place since 1996. I went from having a not so great condition of the teeth & gums (no dental for 10+ years is a very bad thing! Bridge, a crown, fillings came in rapid order) to a condition where now I am sure I can get to 60/65 years of age with most of my original teeth. Priced right, tremendous patient care. My wife was going to somebody she didn't care for, had to get an emergency dental procedure and Kami was able to get her in the next day and called her afterwards to ask about her condition, she was so pleased she stopped going elsewhere. The practice is very efficient and is now in a brand new facility with brand new state of the art equipment. It is the original location on University (moved back there 9/29/2008)...Be careful, tiny entrance to parking lot is now *JUST BEFORE* the building going bay-wards on University (not at the end where it used to be). read more

I don't care to say good things because I don't want them to be busier than they already are, but it is true that this is a 5-star operation. I am a discount shopper at all levels. I can get a better prices at other places or other cities but there is a reason why I choose to come here. It is because I truly believe in this Doctor's skills and decisions. If I ever move to other cities in other states, I can see myself getting on a plane to receive treatment from Dr.Kami. ------- Their rating is a good example of how if it is a good business, they will still get 1-2 stars but very very few of them. I usually book my cleaning with a specific person but last couple of times, it was a different person. I don't know why that happens read more

Dr. Kami and staff are incredible! I'm new to Berkeley and was in dire need of a dentist. I haven't seen a dentist in over 2 years. I looked through Yelp and read all the great reviews for Dr. Kami. So, I decided to make an appointment. Since he's such a popular dentist, I had a wait a bit, but that was okay. Once I was seen, he greeted me with open arms and went through the entire process with me. I am VERY pleased with Dr. Kami and his awesome staff. :) I highly recommend seeing Dr. Kami if you're in need of a great dentist. read more

Dr. Kami started with a head and neck oral cancer screening, and after checked for recession and pockets. He was friendly and professional! I was surprised by how much time he took with me. Seeing me not only before my cleaning but after as well. Fatima my Dental Hygienist gave the best cleaning I've ever had! I had pretty bad build up under my permanent retainer and she cleaned it better than it's ever been. Fatima also did great with subgingival cleaning. She used an ultra sonic water pic and then touched up with hand tools. I'll be going back next week for a night guard. Overall this was the best experience I've had at the dentist. I highly recommend Dr. Kami and Fatima the hygienist! read more

I really can't say enough about Dr. Kami as a person and professional. I've seen my share of dentists and no one comes close to Dr. Kami's knowledge, efficiency, kindness and care. My family has been seeing him for over 20 years and he's the only dentist we trusted to take care of my dad while be battled with Parkinsons. He takes care of every patient like they are family. You'd honestly be very hard pressed to find a better dentist (or person for that matter) anywhere else. read more

Last week I had one of the best experiences with a medical provider in my life. it was my first appt with Barry Kami, DDS. He was not only thorough in his examination and presentation of findings but additionally and simply he was a very nice person. He immediately relaxed the situation by asking that I refer to him by his first name. He was not only took a history but was interested in who I was. He examined not only my teeth but the soft tissues in my mouth, head and neck. His examination equipment is state of the art. His office was clean and modern. The staff from the folks at the front desk to the dental assistant were very friendly. They observed strict Covid safety procedures. The finale was that Dr. Kami looked me in the eye and told me that I could contact him in the future 24/7 with concerns. This could have been the primer for interpersonal relations, thorough examination and communication for every health care provider in the nation. I speak as a health care provider myself for near 50 years. It was a great lesson for me. I left glowing. BRAVO read more

I've been to Dr Kami for over 6 years now and have no complaints at all and definitely recommend him. The dental hygenists are always super professional and gentle. Dr Kami is super friendly, knowledgeable and good at explaining what is happening - very straightforward. They just renovated their office which I have yet to visit, but I heard it's got all the mod cons. I am usually afraid of dentists but Dr Kami lessens the anxiety. read more

so I am a long time patient and generally love the office but there are a few rubs with respect to scheduling and their efforts to be efficient and reliable. 1) they will give you an email but never ever respond to emails - its annoying because for many of us trading phone calls is the worst way to go 2) if you ever have to cancel an appointment it will take literally months to get another one. For many of us who have crazy schedules this is also challenging 3) if you ask to try to fit into a cancellation, they put you on a list and I guess lose it. Then you have to wait for a long time assuming you will get a call, then give up and schedule something for months in the future. BTW the above is based on multiple instances of these issues over many years of being a patient - it is not a one time thing Generally if you are retired or have a very easy schedule and are very tolerant of dropped balls, this a very nice professional group - if not you may find it impossible to actually get regular cleanings... read more

I have been seen by Dr. Kami for four years now and I have never been to a dentist's office like this. Customer service is not something I notice usually unless it's really poor or really great, in this case the entire staff is consistently great. Even though I have never had a procedure more serious than a filling, this earns me a Dr. Kami phone call to check up on me later. I only wish he took Medi-Cal-my teenagers are in that program and I am struggling to find a dentist without multiple scandalous reviews. read more

It might seem strange that for my first Yelp post ever I've chosen to review a dentist, but consider it a testament to just how wonderful Dr. Kami really is. There's nothing pleasant about a spending a week with a sharp throbbing pain in your cheek followed by the news that "Yup, you need a triple root canal", but somehow Dr. Kami made it bearable. He delivered the news with gentle, fatherly concern, took his time to give me a thorough explanation, and then his receptionists pulled some strings to make my wait-time for the procedure as short as possible. As far as regular visits go, I've found the hygienists friendly, the check-ups painless, and his advice always sincere and helpful: basically, a dentist office trifecta of awesome. If you're looking for a dentist in the East Bay, Dr. Kami is your man! read more

Seeing as he came recommended by a colleague and has great Yelp reviews, maybe it was a rare bad day for Dr. Kami's office (and myself). I showed up for my first appointment - just a "check-up" and x-rays only, as there wasn't enough time for a cleaning. That was my first sense that something was off. I've never had to have two separate appointments for these services. I went ahead and booked the appointment, which was a month out, but asked them if they could let me know if they had any cancellations prior to my appointment as I felt a crown I have had a small hole in it. It didn't hurt, so wasn't an emergency, but I was eager to have it looked at. They called me 2 days ago and let me know of a cancellation today (Halloween) at 4 p.m. I accepted the earlier appointment and was excited to have a new dentist, and to fix any potential issues and (eventually) get a teeth cleaning as well. He is also located 2 block from my office. I arrived 10 minutes prior to my 4 p.m. appointment, in case they needed me there early (although I had already filled out the online questionnaire, etc.) I saw about 8 different people come in, including 3 children, and almost all were seen immediately. Looked like a very positive sign. At 4:15 p.m. I still hadn't been called. I checked with the front desk. The woman at the desk told me she "forgot" to upload some information but it would only be another few minutes. It took 15 more minutes (a total of 40 minutes in the waiting room) for someone to call me. She took me to the procedure area and I asked how long the appointment might be. She told me 45 minutes to an hour. She didn't apologize for my long wait or inform me what my appointment would consist of. At that point I was fed up and told her that I only scheduled an hour from my appointment time. So I would need to reschedule. She was surprised and we went to the front desk to do that. However, at that point I had zero desire to waste anymore time with Dr. Kami's practice. A very disappointing experience and now I need to spend more time looking for another dentist and waiting for a new appointment. I hope they can fix their issues, but they probably don't have to with all the good reviews and word of mouth. Just a very unfortunate experience but hopefully I'll find a more professional dentist office soon. I miss my SF dentist but she doesn't have evening and weekend appointments, or I would have stayed with her. read more

I couldn't be happier, every time is a good experience and that is a lot to say for my fear to dentists self. His chair side manner, professionalism and expertise are just great. I just had a crown replaced, it was easy, well done, minimum pain, great care, then doctor Kami calla me, following up. Reception and billing also nice and efficient. read more

I went in for a check-up and a cleaning yesterday, and I just wanted to update my review with my most recent experience at Dr. Kami's office. Dr. Kami is such a friendly guy, after only a few moments of speaking with him, you forget you came in for treatment, and find yourself actually enjoying being in a dentist office! I have been to many, many dentists--and I don't have insurance that limits my selection of care providers, so I can choose to go to any dentist I would like to see--and Dr. Kami's office has been the best, and continues to be the best dentist office I have been to. I highly recommend Dr. Kami for anyone who is looking for a new dentist, or for anyone who is looking to switch to a different dentist. read more

I recently moved back to the bay area (after being away for 12 years) and was in need of a new dentist. I was referred to Dr. Kami by my good friend. He's great! He's nice, pleasant, attentive, and likes to give advice by saying, "if you were my daughter," definitely a family feel to his office. Jessica, my hygienist, is the best hygienist I've ever had! I've never had someone so gentle, careful, and thorough. She also continued to ask if I was comfortable during my cleaning. Wonderful treatment, which is super important for a dentist office, as many find dental appointments uncomfortable. Thanks for the wonderful care Dr. Kami and Jessica! read more

Perfect work every time. He and his staff are so finely honed, I know I'm always in perfect hands. Also, I've been to dentists before and just had to be stoic at the time to get through dentistry, but they have the lightest touch, needles are barely noticeable and they are spot on in using them. Dr. Kami or staff call you before the end of the day to make sure you're okay. I do have to schedule far in advance, but that's fine. He does make time asap if it's an emergency or quick review. There were some mix ups about billing for a while, but eventually it was straightened out. My son is one and ready to meet with Dr. Kami too :D read more

I just got off the phone with Dr. Kami, who called me at home this evening to make sure everything was fine after my fillings this morning. Star Class Dentistry. I have been going to Dr. Kami for 4 years and I always leave feeling great about my dental care. The office staff is equally excellent! read more

Best experience I've ever had at a dentist. Got a filling here after an old filling fell out. I was surprised because I didn't feel a thing. Melanie the filling specialist did a great job. Dr. Kami even called me in the evening to check up on how you're doing. I totally didn't expect that, but appreciate it nonetheless. Dr. Kami is an out of network doctor so my insurance covered less, but it was totally worth it. read more

I went to Dr. Kami for the first time today on the recommendation of a knowledgeable (i.e. a dental professional) friend. I had a semi-emergency and he saw me within four hours of calling. All his staff were excellent as were his facilities (includes free parking! - always a plus in Berkeley). But most importantly was his friendly manner and gentle but obviously skillful hands when diagnosing my issue. He took care of the issue quite quickly and sent me home with appropriate supplies for a full recovery. And the bill was about 1/5th of what I expected. Now that my long-time dentist in Berkeley has retired, I will definitely be returning to Dr. Kami for all my future dental needs. read more

Dr. Kami is wonderful!! I have been going to him for years and he is always so kind, professional, and compassionate. The dental hygenists are sweet and very efficient. Once you go to Dr. Kami, you will never want to go to another dentist!!!! read more

I just moved to Berkeley and had what I thought was a dental emergency so I called Dr Kami's office and they got me in within a couple of hours. All of the staff were so welcoming and friendly and really helped minimize my anxiety. The office is beautiful, spacious and comfortable and the woman at the reception desk said that they are in the process of going paperless, which is cool too. Dr Kami himself was empathetic, welcoming and warm and took the time to get to know me a bit and spoke with me about more than just my dental concerns. He was clear about my treatment options and I never felt pressured. The whole visit could not have been better- needless to say I have found a new local dentist for me and my family and I actually look forward to returning. read more

To Matt E: Your dentist doesn't tell you to floss better because it makes him rich. Your dentist/hygenist does tell you to do a better job because ultimately it's in your best interest and will save you TIME, MONEY and DISCOMFORT. Try gargling with hot salty water after every meal. It works. The Drs. Kami (the elder and Barry) are the finest in the area, IMHO. I've known them most of my life and I'm almost 50. The new digs are great but billing for dental procedures is standard and isn't scaled up to pay for construction. Two minutes from a top notch guy like Barry is worth way more than an hour with someone less sensitive and talented. The staff is wonderful, the office a well run machine. That's value. I wouldn't down the place because of one incident. Bottom Line: Finest Dentist I have known, sensitive, caring, talented and extremely professional. I rarely feel the shot when I have one. And, he follows up personally after a procedure. When was the last time your dentsit did that? read more

Dr. Kami's office was the first five star Yelp institution I ever visited, four years ago. He and his staff did not disappoint! Best dentist office I've ever been to. I first visited for a second opinion for some unexpected tooth sensitivity. I was really impressed by Dr. Kami's honesty, his energy, and by how much he cares. I remember getting a call from him later that evening to ask how I was doing, and after several visits we were able to sort out my tooth pain. The staff are all very professional and it seems like everyone enjoys working with Dr. Kami. My teeth feel awesome after every cleaning, and it really seems like they try to think of everything for their patients comfort and convenience (dental goodies to take home, phone chargers etc.). read more

The best dentist ever really. I've been to many other dentists and I always felt like I overpaid for things that weren't needed. But Dr Kami is very genuine and honest. He wouldn't make you to get something that you don't need. He really cares about his patients and tries to make them feel comfortable. All the staff is very friendly and nice. I've already recommended this dentist to some of my friends. Their price is pretty reasonable compared to other dentists. read more

I've been coming to Dr. Kami since June 2007. I picked him because he a) has good reviews on here, b) takes my insurance, and c) is walking distance from my work. But I've kept coming because d) everyone at the office is wonderful! So far I've had mostly cleanings and routine x-rays. When the office was being renovated, I neglected to get any cleanings for about a year. It was a busy time in my life and, well, without the office being within walking distance... it just didn't happen! So when I finally visited the new office - *gasp* - I had two cavities. My first! The fillings went very quickly and painlessly. Every time I have a cleaning, it's with Cathy. She's simply wonderful. Very warm and aware of my comfort. Friendly but not too talkative (especially appreciated in a dentist situation). And quick! My last cleaning took 20 minutes from me walking in the door to walking out. Can't beat that! Dr. Kami stops in at the end of every cleaning to take a quick look and ask if I have any questions or issues. I haven't so far, but I appreciate that he honestly seems to care how I'm doing. I also appreciate having the same hygienist every time. I go twice a year and book my next appointment at my current one. It's nice to have the continuity of the same person every time - especially when it's someone as nice and professional as Cathy. She must keep notes on patients or something because she always remembers what's been going on in my life and asks about it. I guess they call that... the personal touch. read more

Dr. Kami is an outstanding doctor and a stellar human being. I've been a patient since graduating from Cal in 2009 and have had nothing but great experiences with him and his wonderful staff; everyone in the office is genuinely happy to be there and it shows in their kind demeanor and helpful attitudes. My mom came for a visit last year and one of her older crowns split in half, leaving her in a lot of pain. Dr Kami saw her THAT DAY, even though he had a packed schedule, did awesome pain-free work, and then called her the next day to follow up. Seriously, if you need a great dentist, look no further. read more

Dr Kami is great. Friendly. Exacting. Understands whats going on with your teeth and gums. His staff does a great job cleaning too. Every simple procedure beyond a checkup and cleaning I've had done with him, he follows up. Calling that evening from his cellphone. Just to check on you. Asks if everything is ok. If something is bothering you, he'll tell you to come back. Even if I don't get to the phone in time, he leaves a very nice and thoughtful voicemail. Amazing indeed. It's good to find a dentist that knows what they're doing; a bad dentist will mess you up. read more

Barry was recommended to me by a friend of mine 5 years ago and he is definitely my all time favorite dentist. I've since recommended him to friends and family and they've all been more than impressed. His newly remodeled office is amazing (ok, ok maybe it has been a year already since the remodel was finished...) Staff are all very friendly but diligent when it comes to cleaning and Barry is super nice and always puts me at ease. I wish I could speak to his skills in the more complicated areas of dentistry but I don't seem to have had any major dental problems ever since I started going there.. read more