Lowry did electrical work at my home. My concerns with the company is manner in which contracts written. Documentation could be better start date should be contract, charges sould be documented to show total costs/any discounts/permit fees/membership fees and clarification of other then 10 year warrenty. They do not sign the contract a written signature should be on contract. Not cross out see whats enclsoed to support my concerns, Company does not send anything in e-mail like receipts and fully itemized bill. I had to ask for certains things. The company boasts over 40 years service but incident reports or I should say mine I was not satisfied. Otherwise workmanship was good. I am retired Govt contracts person and just look for a properly executed document. When I asked tech for written signature he wrote his name on top paper??? No where on incident report as they call see. Thus my rating of GOOD. read more

Lowry Services - incident report for electrical work - Electricians Near Me - Harleysville, Pennsylvania

Great! Honest, efficient and reasonably priced. Listened to my needs and did not force upsells!

On dec 4th I had a bathroom vanity installed that leaked for 3 months before I caught it.They send another tech out who is a warranty mgr who installed wrong parts and it leaked straight through April where a senior service tech came out to do the repair and stated the wrong parts where used without sealers and gaskets.I spoke to the owner and said do you think a vanity that had been leaking for months didn't damage the vanity? I Requested a compromise for a full refund.He said I can do that but we won't be out again if it leaks.Are you kidding.This company dosent take responsibility for anything so I did a chargeback. read more

Lowry Services - Vanity leak - Electricians Near Me - Harleysville, Pennsylvania

New HVAC system from Lowry this year. Heating turned off in winter and now ac not working on hottest days so far. Receptionists are well versed to tell you fee for initial visit, repeat often. Very disappointed with system and this company. Do not use!! read more

I'm extremely disappointment with the experience I had with Lowry Electrical and Plumbing Service. What was supposed to a routine plumbing job (unclogging a toilet) ended in disaster. Their incompetence caused over $47,000 in damage to my brand new home. A major water leak somehow from the master bathroom ended up flooding through two floors, destroying ceilings, walls, and flooring in both our guest room and the kitchen below. There was clear lack of professionalism, accountability, and basic attention to detail. Despite multiple opportunities to correct the issue, their team failed to take responsibility and offered little to no help in resolving the aftermath. Communication was poor, and their attitude was dismissive at best. Their response? "You will have to deal with the insurance company." We received a settlement agreement from their insurance company that is $10,000 lower than what it will take to fix my home (MY BRAND NEW HOME). So I called and tried talking to them and said lets split the difference from a loss perspective you take responsibility and pay half of the $10,000 difference so $5,000 and i'll take a $5,000 loss which I thought was a fair compromise (I shouldn't have to take a $5,000 loss on a mess they created) That's it. No ownership, no accountability, no effort to make things right. Just a shrug and a complete lack of responsibility for the mess they caused. This wasn't a minor mistake - it was catastrophic. If you value your home and your sanity, stay far away from this company. This experience has been both financially taxing and emotionally draining. I would strongly caution anyone against using this company - what seems like a small job can easily spiral into a nightmare. I hope others can avoid the same ordeal. read more

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We used Lowry for electrical service 3 x last year. although one of the problems persist, when i had the need of a plumber I decided to call them figuring that getting a frozen pipe thawed in a tight space was not rocket science and I was looking to establish a relationship. I took a quick shower and moved the car out of the driveway so I could leave without interrupting them if they ran long. when i came back in I noticed that i had missed a call from them at 8:44 (shower time) and one at 9:02 (cancelling the appointment). No one said that they would call to confirm, or I would have had the phone at my side even during shower. We have never changed or cancelled an appointment. If this is how they take care of repeat customers, they must not need my business. read more

Terrible. We purchased a new furnace. 2 months later, no heat. It was the middle of winter. A couple of nights with temps in the teens. It took them 7 DAYS to finally fix a NEW furnace purchased from them. Will never use them again read more

Troy from Lowry came to fix a leaking toilet shut off and change a tub spout. He was quick, friendly and knowledgeable. I would recommend him for any plumbing issues. The price from Lowry for the work is a different story. They did work with me on the price. read more

It's a shame how this business has deteriorated in 5 years. I left a very positive one when I first used them years ago. The technicians are talented however now they are forced to be salesmen - haggling over prices for all of the repairs and charging almost $100 for just a visit - even to their existing customers like me, who have used them for the past 7 years! I have given them thousands of dollars over the years and I can't even get them on the phone when a pipe that they replaced burst - holding for 10 minutes at a time only to be handled by an answering service. I hope that they start reconsidering their exorbitant pricing schedule as it was nice to use their talented techs. read more

My review for Lowry Services is mixed. For years, they have been my service provider of choice. On the plumbing side, Gavin is amazing. He's knowledgeable, respectful, not afraid to get his hands dirty and, most importantly, appreciative of the consumer's knowledge of their own home. There is another gentleman on the HVAC side who is also in the same category as Gavin. However, his name is escaping me. With the good stuff out of the way, let's address the two most recent service calls. Called on a Saturday for emergency water pressure issue, primarily on the 2nd floor of my home. I provided my credit card number to "secure the visit," hung up and waited. No one showed up, so around 8pm I called to inquire. The young lady was very nice and apologized. She said she left a message. I didn't have it, but took her at her word. She scheduled for Sunday and the tech (Tony) showed up around 9am. He immediately quoted me a $15,000 heater repair. When asked what the heater had to do with cold water pressure issues, he replied "I'm not a plumber, I'm HVAC." He then proceeded to his truck to "write up" the visit and see what he could do to "get a plumber out here." While he was in his truck, I reached out to dispatch to avoid double paying the emergency fee. The answering service picked up and was to relay the message. However, instead of calling me back. They called the tech who then came out of his truck and tried to collect $300. When trying to explain my perception of what was happening, Tony proceeded to talk over me, raise his voice and threaten to "never service my property again if I didn't pay him. Instead of listening, he continuously escalated the situation. I told him he's not going to "disrespect me at my [explicative] home. And sent him on his way. Tony is a disrespectful and arrogant person who does not deserve to be in a consumer-facing role. It is not my fault he was dispatched for a plumbing call and his irritation should have been aimed elsewhere. I am perfectly ok with finding another plumbing and HVAC vendor if it means never having to deal with people like Tony again. Prior to this most recent incident, there was a plumber who came and was too scared to do the work. That was quickly rectified and Gavin was sent to complete the job. I wrote that off as a blip. However, it appears to be a trend forming. I'm not saying do not use this company. Just be careful and informed about your property and the work you need done so you don't get scammed in an emergency. UPDATE: This issue was fixed the next day for $125 by an independent plumber. read more

DON'T call Lowry Services - you can't afford it! Recently had a circuit breaker blow. Lowry came out for $50 and quickly assessed there was a short somewhere. $950 if I wanted them to find the short. That's right, $950. 2 hours later they found the short between 2 wired smoke alarms but to fix it, they needed to run a new line between the smoke alarms and that would be $1,500 I said no thank you, I'd use battery operated alarms instead. They said no, I was legally obligated to fix it. That's right, legally I had to pay them an additional $1,500. I feel like the Lowry Electric Mob just shook me down for $2,500. Also, this is how they left my home. You know. $2500 doesn't include leaving your home the way they found it. See pics of walls and ceiling I now have to fix. Ouch. read more

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Purchased a Home Generator System from Lowry, about 4 years ago. Used 3 times and i have always had a problem ! System has never worked properly, Generac Gas powered 125KW generator is not powering my house when turned on. Lowry said "not our problem" no help whatsoever, so I have a $6000 investment that is worthless !!!!!!!!!!! Lowry refuses to even suggest a local contractor to come out and look at the problem !! Do not do any business with Lowry , for any type of home service ! Steve Lee Parsons Downingtown, Pa read more

Needed a new lighting fixture installed in a bathroom. It needed some re-wiring and a new light switch as well. Had Lowry come out to give us an estimate of $828. Called an independent electrician that was recommended to me at the lighting store. He did a fantastic job and charged me $220. WoW! I was happy to pay Lowry the $89 service fee to get him out of my house. He kept saying that we have to be careful that the job is done correctly (by Lowry) as if other electricians don't know how to install a light fixture. At the same visit we had Lowry give us an estimate to install an exhaust fan in the bathroom-$2,227!!! I will not be calling Lowry. read more

After using this company multiple times, my son used them for replacing a Hot water heater. After Much negotiation of INSANELY high price quotes (roughly $1000/hr) including a 6 year warranty that was already mostly covered by the 6 year manufacturers standard warranty on the water heater itself, my son let them install a new unit. I was told it was "code" that there needed to be a shutoff vavle on the Hot side which seems to be untrue, so I let them leave the old water heater in the basement, install a new unit supplied by them (same model available at Home depot). In the process the technician cut out 2 brass unions that would not only have made his work easier, but would have made any future replacement require no new plumbing. The new unit was same height and the inlet and outlet line up perfectly with the old plumbing with the Brass unions. Since that was removed and I feel with intent, Now any future replacement requires cutting out the plumbing. I won't say how much they charged. But My son, Myself and anyone who asks me will be told NOT to go anywhere near this company again. read more

I called Lowry to run a 3 foot line from my towel warmer to an existing gfci outlet and also asked for the technicians expertise witch said it can't be done. And for he couldn't help me it was free of charge. As a skilled woodworker I just drilled a hole myself and made the necessary electrical connection myself. Took me only 2 hours. 1 week later I received a $ 340 bill for a "skilled Technician to come over". I payed and will never use any Lowry services again. read more

I should have looked on here first to review Lowry Electric there's so many negative posts and I found them on BEST PICK REPORTS OF 2023, how did they get good reviews for prices and services it doesn't make sense. We are putting in another room in our house , the job entailed installing a light switch , the wiring is already in place , I needed an outlet and the light moved over to the other room , hardware was there and it just needed to be moved. Not a big job at all maybe 2 hours, my quote was $1,560.00 I said no Thankyou I paid the service fee of $89.00 I will not be calling them ever again and I will not refer anyone to them. I see the good in Everyone but to charge those prices is insane! read more

I suppose that I will never know if I got the best deal in town but I found the technician to be forthright, knowledgeable and courteous. I trust the recommendation that they implemented. He was at our house only a few hours from when we first called Lowry (no power) and we were not an existing customer. They have earned my business going forward. read more

The work completed was great. But I can not believe how long its taking them to provide me with an itemized invoice. I have called several times and each time is the same thing "Bob" is working on it and will get back to me. It's been almost a month and no invoice. Hoping someone that reads this can help and email me the information am requesting. Not a good way to start business with a new client! read more

If you're elderly do not use this company!! They take advantage of the situation. My 82-year-old mother was charged $1,085 to have her garbage disposal replaced in less than an hour. That price includes their discount coupon. We have called several times to speak to owner/manager to no avail. I understand it's over and done with now and a huge lesson learned to someone who is on a fixed income. Company claims they have integrity, I think not, I can't even get a call back. BEWARE * Thank you Steve for getting back to me. We appreciate your concern in this matter and we look forward to it being resolved. Edit Matter has been resolved to our satisfaction. read more

I hired them to fix a thermostat that was on the fritz. They had a special deal that said $89 for diagnosis and service. It turned out the $89 was just for coming over. They replaced the thermostat - cost of thermostat (basic thermostat, not programmable) $428.20. Per online search this thermostat costs under $100. Total cost for basic thermostat install - $567.20. Bonus - service tech told me that the $428.20 could be deducted from the cost of a new unit if I ever needed to replace it. His words were in effect '.... so think of it as just renting the thermostat'. I felt violated! read more

I hired them to fix a thermostat that wasn't working. They had a special deal that said $89 for diagnosis and service. It turned out the $89 was just for coming over. They then replaced a faulty thermostat and charged me $430.00 for doing so. The thermostat cost about $100 at Walmart, so they charged me over $300, for attaching the thermostat to two wires. This is a dishonest place that gauges customers. In addition, the man they sent was condescending and rude. I will never call them again. read more

They charged me $89 to troubleshoot my a/c. Completely understandable. However, the technician was here for at the MOST 45 minutes. They charged me an additional $454.32 to replace a part that is $17.90 on Amazon. I am SICK! I called and let them know how disgusted I was. The person on the phone said that she would pass my message onto management; never heard a word. I understand that you have to make a profit, but that is price gouging!! Absolutely NEVER would recommend Lowry!! I will also tell my story as much as possible so no one will use them. How do you sleep at night Mr. Lowry? read more

If I could leave a -100 rating I would. Super inflated estimate. Double the other one I received so far, and I know what my neighbors and others paid for the same service. Then their plumber took my trim kit with him - I purchased the kit myself - claiming he needed it to see if he could find the valve for it with his vendor. Why couldn't he just write the part number down? I contacted the company and told them I was getting additional estimates and needed the kit back in order to get those done. It has been numerous calls back and forth (with at least 4-5 people) and I'm still waiting - 48 hours + now. It was supposed to be on Tuesday, then yesterday, then returned last night, then it was first thing this morning. I called at 9 AM and was told that the plumber went to his first job. I was guaranteed on the phone last night that he would stop here and drop off my kit, so I was up at 6:30am waiting for that to happen. They then called over an hour ago and said he was on his way. I told them no later than noon as I had another plumber coming. It's now 12:20pm, and I am still waiting. The other plumbers could not do estimates without the parts. The plumber that was coming today had to push my job further back because my parts are still not returned. And the leak continued for 48 hours + while they messed around. This is now affecting my work and family schedules for the day as well. The fact that I had to call and flip out multiple times to receive my property back is not ok. They then offered me 20% of the service. I wouldn't have taken an offer of 50% off with the way this company is run. Do NOT hire this company. Games are being played nonstop. They are certainly not reliable, honest, or professional. And regardless of what occurred, my property should have been returned the next day with no exceptions and no further frustration on my part. And no Lowry, you don't need to respond. Here's a pic of all the phone calls to get my items back - receipt provided. read more

Lowry Services - Electricians Near Me - Harleysville, Pennsylvania

You need to pay them $89 just for a quote. I don't know of any companies who charge just for a quote. Called in to see about getting a quote to have electric run to an outbuilding and they said you need to pay to have a tech come on site. I do appreciate that they said it up front. But that's still not worth it since I am just getting a quote to see if I would like to use them. read more

Have a clogged drain from the house to the septic. Used online chat because using phone isn't always the best solution for me. Sunday evening they take all the info but refuse to comment on the $89 coupon the the site and said someone would call Monday morning. I said I guess they don't have emergency service and said o keep me in the queue but I need to call around. Another plumber said $300-$500. I said I'll wait till Monday. Talk to Lowry. The coupon is just to show up, the web chat is third party why didn't I call, most people that need emergency server call. Then she started arguing with me when I questioned it all and her voice turned angry. Avoid at all cost because believe you me and you can see other reviews on it they COST PLENTY and if you question anything they will get rude fast. I had to hang up on her because she wouldn't stop talking. I wasted 16 hours because the coupon was not understood and third party uneducated. Get with the program. People need to know costs, people need to be well informed (if third party isn't properly informed then fix it or get rid of them) read more

Called to have my furnace checked out because there was water in the pan below it. Technician said I had a big and dangerous crack in some part of my furnace that might be emitting carbon monoxide and could kill me. Said I needed a new furnace that would be "about" $8,000. Called the local fire department to check for carbon monoxide - they found no trace. Asked the guys who came who they would call and the said FAUST. Faust came out within an hour, said I had two parts that needed replacing (for about $1200), did it the next day, and the owner himself personally came out to check the job (technician was not a rookie) as he did for every job they did. Wonderful service! Very happy that they do not take advantage of women who live alone! Can't recommend them more highly!!!!!!!! read more

My girlfriend used Lowry Services a few times for projects at her home. This last time I needed my system replaced so we had one of their sales representative out to home, in Bucks County area. At first the gentleman was very nice until he started talking about politics, which was very off putting to me, he is very hard to the right and made several remarks against minorities. I did not feel comfortable with him in my home. I needed up using another contractor, the value was a lot more and most importantly their ethics and integrity were top notch. read more

We previously posted, and owner Steve Lowry asked us to call him regarding our subpar experience with their customer service (the job was done well, but we are several thousand dollars lost without a letter from Lowry saying that the job was completed according to local regulations). I did, but was told that Steve would not take my message and I needed to contact the plumbing manager, who never returned my call for the second or third time. My public adjuster said to post my grievance on their Facebook page, which I did over the weekend, but looked today to find it was taken down. The statute of limitations expires in days. HELP!!! Please email us at rich@cbg-pa.com or fax us that letter on Friday at 215-364-8930. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! read more

My husband and I used Lowry for electrical work and our electrician Tom was FANTASTIC!!! We previously had issues with our ceiling fan not working and we called out HSA to come fix it, they charged me 150 just to come out and say they had to rewire everything. We called Lowry, Tom came out and gave us a very reasonable quote for them to install a new fan and check everything! Nothing was due until service was completed and WORKED. I absolutely loved it. Tom was personable and had a lot of knowledge about the issue at hand. He was respectful of my sleeping two year old and really did an outstanding job. I would recommend him and the company to anyone I know! Thanks for the help Lowry and Tom!! This is an edit to my previous post! Just used Lowry Services for a plumbing issue and Gio was BEYOND nice! During this whole COVID-19, we needed someone to understand separation and cleanliness. He exceeded my expectations and gave us a great price. He was in and out user an hour. Great service! Will continue to use you guys whenever we need it. !thank you so much read more

Had an emergency call the other night, dispatch said they would be out to take care of plumbing. No show from plumber the next day, was given excuses and told we'll call back shortly. Half hour+ and no call back, so I called another emergency plumber and cancelled with Lowry. After using them and having multiple jobs done for almost $2K over the past few years, I feel I can no longer recommend them. Feel let down and disappointed! read more

Rip off company. Run the other way. Will come out and give you a quote double anyone else and then charge you 49 bucks when you say forget it. Fleecing customers, great way to build a rep Saw the much delayed response from this company and had to respond. I totally understand the aspects of business having run million dollar businesses, however your comment on honest and ethical behavior does not ring true. I am sure you understand that people vote with their feet and the reputation of a business will drive future success. If you business model continues to work for you, more power to you. Smart consumers will not fall for it though. I can only speak to my experience. I paid your fee to drive out there, rejected the offer to repair at the price quoted, rejected the second offer when I told them it was too high, then called someone else and paid half the fee with a more pleasant experience. So even paying your fee, I still came out way ahead and know who I will choose in the future no questions asked read more

I called requesting pricing for replacing my water heater. They charge $49 to come out and quoted $2600 with no itemization just a total. Waist of time they could have provided the price over the phone but instead sent someone so they could charge me the fee. read more

I am not a fan of Lowry Services, and neither should you be. Where to start - this company is as unprofessional as they come. They price gouge, do shoddy work, and do not honor their so called warranty. A month and a half or so ago, Lowry Services installed exhaust fans in two of my bathrooms. When the electrician told me he was going to go to Lowe's to get the fans, I told him to get good ones, and I'll pay the increased price for them. Fast forward a bit. I noticed that after showering, my bathroom wall gets moisture on it. I researched the model number of the fans and leaned that these fans get very poor ratings. That explains the moisture. When I called to explain this, the representative was friendly, and scheduled me for a repair visit. I also requested additional work to get done. As soon as the "electrician" named Matt arrived, he immediately told me that there is nothing he can do to address the moisture issue. He said the fans are 120 CFU fans, and that they are fine for the bathrooms. He suggested that I hire a carpenter to remove the bathroom doors and saw off a quarter inch along the bottom of them - then said this "may help" with the moisture. He said another option would be to shower with the bathroom door(s) open. I'm sure my fiancé and daughter would have an issue with this. My family is not showering with the doors open, nor am sawing off the bottom of my doors because it is not needed. I lived in other houses where the doors didn't need sawing and the exhaust fans worked fine. Additionally, the fans are 110 CFU, not 120 CFU. Regarding the incorrect CFU "guess" you would think that the company that supplied these fans would know what they installed. Then again, if Matt took the time to actually look into the issue for more than 45 seconds, he may have been able to speak more intelligently on this concern. Needless to say, this issue was not addressed - barely looked into, and the moisture continues to happen. I'm assuming it is only a matter of time until my paint starts to bubble. I also have a few outlets in my house that do not work. Outlets that do not work seems like entry level electrician work, but what do I know. I paid over $300.00 to have these outlets fixed. After about an hour, the electrician fixed one outlet, and seemed stumped on the others (which are all on one side of the house). His answer to me was to ask me to pay an additional $308.00 dollars for him to continue. When I initially scheduled the job, I asked that these outlets be fixed, not that I pay over $300.00 to hope that they get fixed. I surely wasn't expecting to be asked for an additional $308.00 for him to continue - and with no guarantee that he would even fix them even then. So, after spending over $300.00 to get my outlets fixed - I am still sitting in the dark, while Lowry Services leaves with my money. I also asked Lowry Services to install two Ring Spotlight Security Cameras. The one in my backyard was installed with the spotlights hanging loose. I had to re-aim them and tighten the thumb screws. No big deal, but I was charged over $400.00 for this one spotlight/camera installation - so I should not have had to do anything. The other spotlight/camera installed over my garage wobbles a bit because he used the same mounting box from the old spotlight that he removed instead of using a new one. That hardware is probably ten years old or more. There are many company's out there that prey on people that are either in vulnerable situations, or who may not know any better. In my opinion, Lowry Services is one of them. There are way too many other options out there; honest and ethical companies, and I will pursue them going forward. Mike Update on 4-12-20: The owner of Lowry Services contacted me via the cookie cutter message below and said to contact them to discuss these issues to resolve them. After speaking to their electrician's manager "Joe" I was told by my own fans and they will install them. Even though I bought the first two already. This is the results of Lowry's incompetent work. Water literally dripping from the exhaust fan and soaking the carpet. I have a video of this I put on their Facebook page, but I cannot upload it to Yelp. I also have water running down my walls. As previously stated, Lowry's wonderful response is for me to go buy new fans and they will install them. Not them coming over with better fans and replacing them, but telling me to buy them at my expense, so that means I will have purchased four exhaust fans because of their half ass workmanship. What a joke. read more

Lowry Services - Electricians Near Me - Harleysville, Pennsylvania

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Had a simple wax collar on a toilet that needed to be replaced. Quoted over $500 ($524 to be exact) to replace it, taking less than 2 hours. Most master plumbers charge ~$125/hr - not sure how you can charge double that amount. Went to call back and get an explanation on the charges and manager was not available and would call me back, 2 weeks have gone by and still waiting. Called again and manager had "just stepped out". Wait and see who will last on this one guess. I know it won't be me - I'll be calling back. Also made the appointment and they ran late on the day they said and had to come the next day, when you are a nurse your calendar is not that flexible and need to show up when you say. Understand that things happen, but just pointing this out as well. Get plumbers that will charge a fair price - they know they are gouging. IA read more

On original visit they charged over $300 to clean my air conditioner coils. Air conditioner still not running properly so we had them come back and we were told the evaporator coil was dirty and then charged $401.90. You would have figured the technician would have checked all the coils the first time. They are only willing to refund me the $99 for a discount plan I never asked for. The sad thing is that I only wanted them to check to make sure it was running efficiently and that cost me over $800 read more

My initial experience with Lowry where they did not honor their warranty was awful. After a prolonged back-and-forth over several months with the BBB, during which their Manager Joe Haney had many opportunities to offer a compromise and did not, I finally gave up and had to have $3500+ of repairs done by another contractor out of pocket. One year later, Steve Lowry personally reached out to me responding to this Yelp review, advising I should call his office so he could make it right. When we spoke he was genuinely apologetic about my poor customer experience. He offered to send a $500 check as compensation for my poor experience with his company, which I agreed to. It doesn't undo the poor original experience, but it shows me that they are becoming more aware that they can improve the quality of their service. read more

i do not recommend and regret ever asking for an estimate from these people. The tornado tore down our electrical mast. They gave me an estimate of $4,490.45 which I refused to sign. I never consented to this work and I'm the sole homeowner. This guy got my granddaughter's boyfriend to sign consent for the work! They did not even do what was on the estimate. They took our mast with them and ran a wire from the meter box to the roof peak because they said that was cheaper! They still want to collect $4,491.45 for work I never signed for and is grossly overpricEd. I have had to make a formal complaint to the attorney genera, these people are not anyone I'd want near my home again ever. Be warned they price gouge and do not do the work as claimed. Again I never signed consent, I have nothing in writing, just harrassment with phone calls. read more

needed a kitchen faucet replaced. started at $780 lowry's outrageously high to install. wont use again

Very reliable service. Ricky team made sure everything is perfect not just good. Very respectful and cleaned up after and was very pleased with the work. Was a big project and finished the project quickly. read more

Needed ONE WIRE replaced from our outside elevator lift into our machine room that already had a path to it and was told it would take 2 days, 3 crew members and $6108.80 and they would punch holes in our walls that they intended not to fix!! Well, got another estimate from a real electrician and he charged us $900, it took him 2 hours by himself with no holes!! DO NOT USE THESE PEOPLE!! read more