For the price, it wasn't worth it. The service was fantastic--very friendly and attentive. Like some places out there, nothing comes with sides. The Cesar was overpriced frozen lettuce. Better to stick to the wedge salad. The steaks/entrees however were overpriced and meh. I had the special: mushroom ravioli with steak. The ravioli was good but needed more sauce. The steak was terrible--undercooked, fatty and tough. Hubby's NY was dry and undercooked. Not sure how a steak can be dry when it's medium rare, but here we are. My brother's prime rib was huge and he enjoyed it. Overall verdict: for the price, go somewhere else read more

We had a wonderful dinner experience last night at Juniper Steakhouse. Despite arriving late for our reservation, the team was flexible, gracious, and immediately made us feel welcome, an excellent first impression. We began with the blue cheese wedge and French onion soup, both outstanding and a terrific way to start the evening. The flaky, croissant-style rolls with whipped butter were a standout as well, warm, indulgent, and hard to resist asking for more. For entrées, we shared the 14-oz bone-in ribeye and the 8-oz filet, each cooked perfectly to a medium temperature. Both cuts were flavorful, tender, and well prepared. The shareable sides complemented the steaks beautifully: crispy steak fries, a green chile mac and cheese with a nice kick, and tasty sautéed mushrooms. Dessert was a shared crème brûlée, a classic finish to the meal. While we didn't enjoy wine on this visit, both the wine and cocktail menus were inviting and well curated. Service elevated the entire experience. Valet service at the front drive was seamless and convenient, with friendly attendants. The hostess and floor manager were warm and attentive throughout the evening, and our server was especially engaging, professional, and personable. The hustle and bustle of the casino doesn't intrude or affect the ambience. Overall, it was an excellent dining experience--well-paced, welcoming, and executed at a high level. We look forward to returning. Derek & Carolyn G. read more

We stayed at the casino for our anniversary and decided to eat here. I'm glad we did I had the ribeye and it was fantastic. Best steak I have had in Albuquerque. I've been to Vernon's and Embers. It had a nice char , was juicy and was cooked perfectly. My wife had the filet and it was also delicious. The lobster Mac n cheese had more lobster than I thought it would and it was also very delicious. Our waiter Ricardo gave us great service and did a great job of explaining the menu. Definitely will be back with more people. read more

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Same ole menu since opening, nothing new, and one would think that the food would be superb by now since its the same menu- cooked to perfection, rather it's ok. There is no strife for being the best, it's a casino. The lobster tail is usually dry, and sometime the steak is perfect. Nonetheless, what does anyone expect...it's "Casino Food" across the board. If you've had casino food at a different location, you're pretty much eating the same stuff here. This place could be better, really. It has so much potential. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Filet Mignon. Shrimp scampi. Bread. Pinot Noir. Water. - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

I really enjoyed this meal. We had the sashimi as an appetizer. It was amazing. Then we had the prime rib. It was huge and cooked perfectly. Then we had the mashed potatoes and the mac & cheese side. It was so delicious and we have the Keylime pie for dessert. This meal was probably one of the best meals, I've had. One of the top three restaurants I've been to, and the price was good. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Prime rib - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

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The food, the ambience and this service are exceptional. My husband and I usually eat at the bar with Danielle as our bartender/server. She is effervescent, friendly, and yet professional... She knows her stuff. The steaks are delicious beyond measure. They bring a baked potato with all kinds of delicious toppings on the side. The salad is always fresh and full of yummy surprises such as maize. I cannot say good enough things about Juniper. We're so fortunate to have this exquisite restaurant so close by to the north side of Rio Rancho. read more

We have eaten here several times before and we're here to celebrate a family birthday. We were promptly seated and then waited nearly 20 minutes before our waiter approached us. We placed our order and started with the deep fried avocado with Asian pepper slaw. It was very tasty. I had delicious French onion soup that was hot and bubbly. Next I had requested the end cut well done of the Prime Rib. Normally you can cut it with a butter knife, but I needed a saw to slice into it. It came with a cup of au jus and a little helping of spicy horseradish. It had a roasted red pepper as a garnish. I have had prime rib here before, and this piece came up way short of my expectations. My birthday dinner mate had a small filet mignon, also with a roasted red pepper for a garnish. We shared a loaded baked potato with butter, sour cream, and bacon bits. The sides were family size to share. We also had some lumpy mashed potatoes, overcooked and burned Brussels sprouts with bacon and balsamic vinegar and sautéed mushrooms in wine sauce. The Brussels were all dried out, as they were way overcooked and burned. For the birthday dessert it was a somewhat bland crème broulee with fresh berries, and whipped cream. It had "Happy Birthday " written in chocolate around the rim. I had iced tea and my birthday guest had some rose to wash down our meal. Our waiter was really scarce as someone else brought us our meals to us. He did give us steak knives though. We did get beverage refills. I would have thought that when the birthday dessert was set down, he could have wished a happy birthday. We were not expecting a song, here surrounded by staff. A lady, I presume was a manager checked in. We did not express our disappointment and asked for to go boxes. A busboy helped clear some of our plates and brought us to go boxes. We asked for our check, paid, and left. I know it is Ballon Fiesta time, but since we were early, the place was not really packed yet, so I do not know why we were ignored in a back corner for so long. read more

Really, really impressed with how good our meal was. We started with the ahi appetizer then I had the filet and my husband had the prime rib. Both were melt in your mouth delicious. The filet had a compound butter with a delicious red wine demi glace. For sides, we shared the mushrooms and brussels sprouts. To finish, we shared a slice of key lime pie. Our waiter, Ricardo, was attentive and added to our overall experience. My only critique was that they do not carry decaf coffee (I cannot have much caffeine due to health issues) as that would have been perfect with my dessert. Overall, it exceeded my expectations and we will definitely be back. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Seared ahi tuna appetizer - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

Fine restaurant with cozy atmosphere. We ordered Ahi tuna which was delicious. Also got Cesar salad which was okey. Slightly unimpressive Cesar dressing. There was blackened chicken on top which was good flavor. Clam chowder was more like seafood chowder with cream sauce (not red). Would recommend it going there again. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

This is a positive review for a terrible meal. We are regulars and Juniper, often siting at the bar sharing an entire. Tonight we brought two friends to celebrate their birthdays. The service was slow and the food came out cold. It was a disaster... that is until Eric, the manager on duty stepped in and up to make things right. We don't know if our friends will jump at a repeat visit... but we'll be back and hope to see things warmer and back to normal. read more

Highly recommend this restaurant, food was absolutely delicious. A shout out to Logan for the amazing service.

Such kind employees who go the extra mile. The food is delicious--try the scallops as an add on. Wonderful service. Multiple great experiences here. read more

The food there is always amazing. This time we had Ricardo and we are so glad we did. We were celebrating my wife recent birthday. From his introduction at our table to a parting handshake he was literally one of if not the best serving person. He ask and responded to our every need and wish almost without us asking. He explained things offered excellent suggestions and ask about when we wanted things to arrive. He checked on us at all the perfect times. He even doubled check on if still wanted 2 desserts as he could see how full we were. His fantastic personality and empathy are off the charts. Make sure you ask for him!!!! ps if Ashley is making the outstanding bread pudding in is an absolute must! read more

The food was delicious, served and cooked with eye-appeal and great taste. Still a little pricey, but great atmosphere for a fancy date-night out. Service was good for what you are getting there. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Lamb-- was mouthwateringly tender and good. - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

Loved my birthday dinner last night. Server A.(male) forgot his name unfortunately was super professional, attentive, and courteous. Best rolls in town to start! Started with shrimp cocktail and that was great start. Filet mignon was delicious and cooked and seasoned perfectly. Lobster Mac was extra creamy with plenty of lobsters for the rest of the table- my kiddos! Mash potatoes creamy, buttery and cheesy just like we love them. Topped off with jalapeno marg requesting it not to be too sweet and it was just what I ordered. Server provided a comp birthday crème brûlée which was fantastic but had to fight off my kiddos and winded up ordering a keylime pie which was a nice sweet and tart that was then ushered to my other grandson who only let me take a bite lol! Love juniper's food, ambience, and service! read more

If I could I'd give them 0 stars.... Last night was supposed to be a memorable mother-daughter evening at a nice steakhouse in New Mexico. I'm here for a nonprofit storytelling conference, and my mom and I were excited to travel together. We've been having a great time, and she wanted to treat me to a nice dinner before I attended an evening conference event the casino. I booked a 7 PM reservation online and told her we'd have to head out by 8:30 for the event. We arrived at the restaurant a bit early, around 6:40 PM, and checked in with the host. We waited patiently as the lobby filled with people. I noticed the host seating several parties who had arrived after us, but I assumed they must have had earlier reservations. By 7:10, I decided to check in again. The host asked for my name, and after a moment of confusion, said she couldn't find us on the list. I reminded her we had checked in 30 minutes ago, and she suddenly remembered. She apologized and said she would seat us right away. Finally, we were shown to our table at 7:15. Since we were already running behind, I tried to order right then with the host, but she informed us that only our server could take our order. We waited again, and by 7:30, our waiter finally arrived. We placed our order immediately. As the clock ticked on, our drinks arrived at 7:50 and they were terrible--so bad that we left them untouched. By 8 we realized we were cutting it close for the event. I flagged down the waiter, explained our time constraint and asked if the food would be out soon. He apologized profusely, explaining that he was the only server that night because three others had called out so it wasn't possible. He kindly offered to cancel our food and comp the undrunk drinks, telling us, "Don't worry, I'll take care of it." We headed over to the event. Just as we were settling in, at around 8:45, a security guard approached us. In a loud, accusatory tone, he said, "You need to come with us. You ran out on your bill and need to come pay." The entire room turned to look at us. My face flushed with embarrassment. We were mortified as we followed security back to the restaurant. Once there, we were confronted by a woman claiming to be the manager. She immediately started berating us, accusing us of running out on our tab. Just as I began to explain, our waiter rushed over, clearly distressed. He told her we hadn't run out on the bill--he had canceled our food and waived the drink charge because we didn't consume them. The manager looked stunned, realizing the mistake. They all stood there, looking foolish, as I explained how humiliating it was to be accused publicly in front of my peers at a private event. I asked for the contact information for the district manager, but the so-called manager only handed me a business card with the restaurant's contact info. When I asked her to write down the district manager's email or phone number, she reluctantly scribbled down his first name and told me it was his name & the restaurant domain. I later emailed him, only to have the email bounce back. It was the cherry on top of a truly disastrous night. read more

Reservation not honored. After waiting 25 minutes past our reservation time we were afraid the nonchalance would continue for our dinner and decided to spend our money elsewhere. Reached out to management and received no explanation or apology. Thanks Juniper Steakhouse for doing your best to sabotage our 44th wedding anniversary. read more

Last night we went to eat at Juniper Steakhouse. We have been there before and were looking forward to it. Unfortunately, we will not go back there again. My husband had the filet and he likes his steak well done. They brought him a rare steak. He sent it back to be cooked more but it was still rare. The customer should get their food the way they want it. I had the French Onion Soup and the Caprese Chicken Salad. The soup was good but the salad was not edible. The Mozzarella cheese was so dry and the little lettuce or I think it was lettuce was so wilted that it looked almost black. Very disappointed at the food. read more

Waiters not very good. Fine dining said no one ever. They served with their stinky hands to my face. Also I traveled from San Fran just to eat here. Disappointed..... read more

Had dinner for 4 tonight, pleasant atmosphere, the dining room was well appointed. The staff was pleasant and accommodating. Wine by the bottle was reasonably priced and other drinks were good enough. 3 NY Strips and one order of prime rib 14oz. Everyone raved about their steak and my prime rib med rare was ok a bit of grey around the perimeter and was lukewarm at best. The sides of brussel sprouts was very good as was the mashed potatoes. The stuffed baked potatoes must have been cooked early in the afternoon and served at 7:30pm the bacon bits were so processed and extremely smokey, not very appetizing . The chix Cesar salad was so big had to bring it home. A petit dinner salad would have been fine. The crème broule was to die for but the key lime pie was all mangled up and crust so soggy, why serve it? An after dinner espresso or cappuccino would have been nice but not available. Overall for the area I guess it was ok and everyone at my table was satisfied and had a pleasant time. You have the room, and probably a great kitchen, attention to detail needs work, a lot of work. Steakhouses are an entity that will never go out of style, this place has a bit of work to do just to be good. read more

I took my daughter, who's here from Chicago for her for her birthday. I've eaten here a few times and loved it. Tonight was no exception. The filet was fantastic and my daughter loved her Caesar salad and steak fries. The only negative about this evening was our server didn't bring us any water until I asked for it and didn't bring butter with our bread. Other than that, our server was very nice and brought out a nice birthday dessert for her. read more

A very enjoyable experience. We were seated immediately by a very attentive waiter(Ricardo). He continued to anticipate our needs throughout our meal. Our meal was 3 courses. Appetizer, bread, soup, entree, desert. The filet mignon was cooked to perfection medallion style (not butterflied). This was a big plus! Also the fish was blackened just the right amount. Our dessert came embellished with a "happy birthday" greeting & candle. Unexpected and delightful! A very comfortable place. Fireplace, private booths, quiet dining. read more

The food is pretty good but service sucked today . Bartender forgot to put my order in after 45 minutes he said they are cooking it now . Need better class of bartender for more upscale place read more

I have been calling and going on the website since the beginning of November to make a reservation. I finally got an answer (by calling) & was told not taking reservations for NYE until November 29th. I continued to check website , but never anything available. I called Nov. 29th & left a message stating time & date requesting along with my telephone #. No return call. Called yesterday & was told the were fully booked for that day. WTHECK?!?! Very disappointed read more

My husband and I came here for our 9th wedding anniversary and we had an amazing time there! I got the filet and my husband got the New York. For our sides we got the green chile Mac n cheese as well as the mashed potatoes and grilled asparagus. Everything was melt in your mouth! The steaks were cooked perfectly! We also ordered a bottle of Cabernet which complemented are steaks very well. Our server, Gina, was super friendly and very attentive but not to the point of bothering us. She refilled our water without us even having to ask her. The ambiance was absolutely lovely as well. Thank you to Gina as well as the chefs for making our anniversary one to remember! We will certainly be back!! read more

I loved it! I got the 9oz. Felet and Steak fries. My wife got the Felet also and the loaded bake potato (we split the fries and loaded baked potato. I also got the seafood chowder that was the best I ever had! I got the sautéed mushrooms wii in th a side of chopped green chili and mixed them which I could have had by itself, but goes great with the Steak. We shared a crème brûlée, and a Keylime pie. read more

The review is definitely not about the food which was fantastic. Unfortunately they should step up the host service to better accommodate guests who come to this destination spot for a spendy meal. The ambiance is lovely, warmly lit, spacious tables and intimate booths UNLESS they seat you next to the window facing the slot machines. We reserved a table for 2 on a Sunday evening to celebrate a birthday. When we arrived right on time, I asked the hostess if we could have a booth (4 of which were unoccupied although some needed to be bussed.) We offered to wait until they were cleaned and ready. The reply was all were reserved for reservations and we could have specifically reserved a booth online. So we waited another 10 min and we're seated at the slot machine window. After another 15 min I walked back to the host desk since all the empty booths were still empty. In my experience there is typically a 15-20 hold time until tables are given away. They told me again that even though the reservations were late (by 45 min to 1 hour at this point) that they would not seat us in a booth. Bad service and strange rules. The manager eventually came by to ask us how our meal was and I recapped this situation to which he replied we should have been reseated and accommodated when the other reservations no-showed. Oh well, great food! Be sure to request your booth online! read more

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I would give the food a five if they hadn't served someone in our group a "chicken salad" that consisted of a grilled, flattened chicken breast that was drier than toast. One could tell by looking at it that it had no juice, no flavor. The steaks were well-liked by those who ordered them. I ordered the salmon, served on a bed of wilted spinach, and it was very good. Five stars for that plate. The problem with the place is the service. We were a table of 16. I expected we would have at least two servers but there was just the one. And so we had to be patient. And I think we were. But it was more than half an hour before our orders were taken and then a very long time with nothing more happening. The waiter, when he left, said the bread would be coming shortly. Easily 30 minutes later the waiter returns with salads. There were about 6 salads brought in and served. As the waiter was leaving I asked the waiter about the bread and he snapped. He glared at me as he said "It's coming!" I was very startled because not one complaint had been made, I wasn't being angry or imperious, I was simply asking. Had I been alone or with one other person, I would've ended the meal then and there. But this was a wedding celebration so I overlooked it. I'm not happy to have been so rudely treated. So, 1 star for service. read more

No more happy hour or so says the bartender. It was a strange place this time. There were very few customers. It didn't seem nearly as welcoming as last time. I don't think I'll be back as the food is pricey for what is offered and the service was almost lazy. I'm not sure who manages now. But it seems different than 10 months ago. Good luck. read more

We decided it was time to treat ourselves to a good sit down dinner. And Juniper did not disappoint. It all starts with a friendly greeting by the hosts and our friendly waitress. We started with two appetizers. The green chile artichoke dip and French onion soup. The green chile artichoke dip arrived with a nice toasted cheesy crust. It was magazine picture perfect and more then enough for two people. The French onion soup...was divine. It started with crispy onion rings topping crusted cheese, bread that stood up to the broth and caramelized onions which melted in your mouth. We should have stopped there as this was a meal upon itself. But we wanted steaks. We both had the New York. Oh boy, cooked just right, tender, so darn good. And for our side... The loaded baked potato...a meal by itself. If we weren't visiting we would have had enough leftovers for another meal. But since we were leaving the next day we stuffed ourselves. The mood was great. The decor was spot on and all the servers were excellent. read more

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We attempted to have a nice dinner out on New Year's Eve. I ordered the ribeye and my wife ordered the salmon. Although she enjoyed her dish, my steak and mashed potatoes arrived cold?!? How is that even possible? It was not particularly busy and we didn't wait long for our food to arrive. I asked to have them warmed up and they returned ever so slightly warmer but now my "medium" steak was well done. I expected more from a place with "steakhouse" in their name, especially for a $60 steak. The rating would be lower if not for the courteous service. read more

They have a magnificent Old Fashioned on the menu and don't say no to bread because they are warm, garlic, delicious popovers. So good. We had the salmon and Mac and cheese; both excellent. The salon was perfectly cooked and crispy. The max and cheese was smooth, creamy and delicious. Service was excellent. Can't wait to return. Excellent in every way. read more

Juniper Steakhouse - Delicious salmon. - Steakhouses Near Me - Bernalillo, New Mexico

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Came here to celebrate my sister passing the board. Made a reservation and got seated on time. My parents ordered the 18 Ounce Bone-In Rib Eye and they liked it. They said it was nice and tender. I ordered the Herb-Marinated Lamb Chops and I like the meat but not the glacé. It wasn't a bad taste, it was a new taste for me and I didn't like but overall good entree. One thing I found incredibly delicious yet small was their croissant biscuit. Never had a biscuit like this before and it was so good. However, I did find a hair on one and I told the waiter but all he said was "oh okay". Kinda disappointed, an apology would've been better. Wouldve gave 4 stars because of the food but can't Good food overall but service was okay read more

Potential, Like you had trying out for your first team, Interviewing for your first job, or what your partner's parents probably thought of you. Sandwiched in those examples is Juniper. Juniper is situated in between the casino and hotel at Santa Ana Star Casino. The ambiance is casual and upscale, and the lighting is date night chic. So when the wife and I saw the menu, we thought date night dress up time. I dusted off my nice clothes I haven't worn since before the pandemic (that was a struggle in its own right). The wife busted out some earrings she has been itching to wear, and we were ready! We arrived, and it seemed like we were way overdressed, as everyone looked they just walked off the casino floor! The dining area was quite wide and there was plenty of seating, but the host took us to a table right next to kitchen and wait station. There was hesitation when I asked to be seated elsewhere, but they seated us in a quieter area. However, the fact that we were even going to be sat at that table while plenty of seats were available was disheartening. Their wine , cocktail, champagne, and beer list was quite extensive. We started with the Hand tossed Seafood Cocktail. I would say that this was awesome. It was a tossed blend of shrimp prawns, blue crab, avocado, cocktail sauce on a bed of cabbage! Next, my wife had the French onion soup (which is her fave), and I had the seafood chowder. They were both legitimately awesome! Recommend both! For main courses, I got the prime rib with asparagus and scampi shrimp prawns! My wife had the prime rib also with a loaded baked potato and asparagus also. The prime rib was a huge cut. Both of us ordered medium rare and the cuts were both medium. However, it was good with awesome marbling. I was a little disappointed that they didn't offer prepared horseradish, but I survived. The asparagus was underwhelming. Overall the food was good, no major complaints. Where I would say there needs to be some changes and training is the wait staff. Although mostly courteous, they service didn't match the ambiance. They seemed to lack simple wait training. Our plates from the appetizers and soups were never cleared. There was a food expo/runner who brought out all our food. Which meant the actual waiter was never really present. Overall, Juniper needs to figure out what it wants to be. It seems it is seeking an identity to match the food! If you win big at the casino, the food is worth the price. If you're on a casual date night, this is a good spot. I hope they can find their restaurant self! read more

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We went for our 37th anniversary and we enjoyed the food very much. The service was a little slow but still didn't let it ruin our night.

Wow! Wow! Wow! I'm so impressed with what a fantastic meal we had here! Forget that this new steakhouse is inside a casino, this is easily one of the best meals I've had. Everything, everything was excellent... from the prawn cocktail with the red chile cocktail sauce, to the buttery flaky croissant biscuits, to the bone-in ribeye and filet mignon (with a demi-glace so good who needs steak sauce?) to the creamy green chile mac-n-cheese and bacon brussel sprouts and all the way to the rich chocolate alto cake... the star has outdone themselves. We can't wait to come back! read more

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Well gave Juniper another shot this weekend and this is how it went. Sat at the bar and was craving prime rib so as I was waiting to order the bartender was taking the order of the couple next to me and they were ordering PR as well when the bartender told them the only way it was available was med or med well. I asked why was that and the chef heard me and decided to answer. He states that it was only available medium or well because he had been cooking it all day and that's what happens when you cook it all day. lol I promptly canceled my drink order and walked out. If you don't know how to cook you should get out of the Restaurant business. What a joke!!!!!! This place never fails to disappoint complete disaster at every food or drink place in the casino. Do yourself a favor and go anywhere else and thank me later. read more

Great meal. Steak was a wonderful surprise. Service wasn't the best but it wasn't bad. We shared a baked potato and mushrooms.

Too bad there aren't more stars to give this place. We went there for my birthday celebration and I was not disappointed. From start to finish, it was perfect. I had the prime rib, wedge salad and mashed potatoes. Everything could have been shareable. The prime rib was one of the best I've ever had. My date had the rib eye and he said it was fantastic! The service was outstanding. All staff were wearing masks and gloves. Attention to detail was spot on. I have been there before pre-Covid and the cigarette smoke was obnoxious. They have since made it a smoke free venue. What a difference that makes. It's a bit on the pricey side but worth every penny highly recommend it and making reservations. I will be back there and I will tell everyone I know about it. It was an amazing evening! craft cocktails were fabulous as well! Complimentary dessert for my birthday!!! Woooo hoooo!!! read more

Food is fine, had the same server both times and she was great, but that is about all that I found positive. We were treated like lowlifes by a very young hostess. We had reserved a private room for a birthday party. At no time were we told that our entire party had to be there before they would seat anyone. When we arrived the hostess (who we had made the reservation with in person the day before) had no memory of us whatsoever and then proceeded to tell us that she couldn't seat us until our entire party was there. We explained that we could understand if it were a table, but no one else was using the room anyway. Then she said that they were very busy. We said we were OK with no service until everyone arrived, but could we at least be seated in our private room. Again she refused. At this point I did start to get pretty upset, and she started pushing back at me telling me to stop talking to her like that. We did go to the room and I asked to see the manager, who also was more focused on how busy she was than how we felt. She basically blamed us for everything. She did stop by later and we told her everything was OK, but I still think at least comping my husband a dessert for his birthday would have been a nice gesture. In summary, we had originally made reservations at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse but my husband got sick and we had to reschedule his party. I think I can say with a lot of confidence that this would not have happened there, in fact I think they would have started seating people as they arrived even at a regular table. The prices are comparable, Juniper may be a bit more reasonable, but I guess you get what you pay for. There needs to me a lot more training in customer service. The people I spoke with were way more concerned with themselves than the customers. Overall our party had a nice time, but I am very upset with the way I was treated. I have also reached out to them over the website to discuss this further but have not had a response, which I guess isn't surprising either. read more