Absolutely the best experience I have ever had with an auto body shop. Like the dentist, no one ever wants to go, but this was as painless as it can get. Front office, Trent was professional and I was greeted immediately. I did not have to wait 1 minute before Dave arrived to inspect the damage I had inflicted on my car. I am extremely happy with their work, it was more than I had hoped for in all aspects. I highly recommend this business located in Renton Highlands. read more

This was the best experience I have had with a car repair shop. The initial appointment was super fast and they were able to get me in within the week. I asked approximately how long the repair would take I was told 1 month and that is exactly the time it took. Then when I picked up the car they far exceeded my expectations. The inside and outside were very clean. Cleaner than when I dropped off. I highly recommend bringing your car here if you are ever in need of a collision repair . Shoutout to Jasmine and Bob read more

Unfortunately this Renton Collision Center is absolutely unprofessional, unorganized and a ridiculous money grab. Not only were they unable to fix our vehicle, Dave was very rude and when I called his boss, Ken, he had already made his mind up and we were in the wrong because Dave, in his opinion, is a "nice guy". We found, after researching this man, Dave treated us differently than his other clients. He had zero respect and empathy. He was intimidated most like because of his small stature and the color of our skin. From there things went down hill and they made us go thru unnecessary obstacles just to get our car returned. Was it because we didn't choose them? Possibly, was it because we are ethnic? Possibly, was it because they are full of ignorant employees? Possibly. I mean the person they have answering the phone could not even call back a correct contact number, the person answering the phone, not worth mentioning her name, could not give any information, this girl could not speak properly and kept saying "um, and I don't know" and had to screen and pass calls and still could not do that job correctly. I know I want someone with confidence and an education answering my questions. I'm sure you agree. Remember, all we wanted was an estimate...instead, they our car was broken down into pieces and magically a few extra scratches and scrapes. I chose to wait to post this until we were completely finished with them because they are clearly vindictive and unprofessional. I work with tow, insurance and I this industry on a daily basis. I am also in the customer service field for 25 years plus for a top national company, please take my word and feel free to call me or contact me before you decide to use this place to fix your family vehicle. I have several places to recommend to get the job done correctly and with respect. I would have given negative stars and titled this "CROOKS" . read more

The Subaru dealership referred me to Renton Collision Center for my repair and everyone there was AWESOME! I absolutely loved working with Chris!!! He was always so accommodating. The front desk ladies were also a pleasure to work with. They were always pleasant and willing to help me get things squared away even as often as I called them. My situation was definitely a painful one because I was hit and the 3rd party said they were going to pay out of pocket for the damages. The Collision Center folks were patient with me through the process as I waited for them (the 3rd party) to pay, but that never happened. In the end, I had to involve my insurance company and from there things were handled pretty quickly and efficiently. I will say that there were a couple of hiccups but again Chris never hesitated to take care of my concerns and it was always in a timely manner. I can't express how much I appreciated his patience. He definitely went above and beyond to make sure that I was a "happy customer" and for that, I give Renton Collision Center 5 STARS! read more

Excellent service from start to finish! Customer service was amazing--extremely responsive and good communicators. The employees working the front desk were polite and professional. The estimator was friendly and explained exactly what needed to be repaired and kept me updated throughout the entire process. My car was returned in pristine condition, looking good as new. They even detailed the inside! The insurance company gave me a lowball repair estimate but the guys at Renton Collision went back and forth with my insurance to ensure my car was fully repaired. Great value, great efficiency, great business. read more

I wish that I had taken my car here to get repaired. The insurance process has been a nightmare. I had my car repaired at a different shop and called looking to get an estimate on what it would take to get my vehicle repaired properly (RCC does not offer this service). Although this shop was not able to assist with my request due to a long standing policy; the woman I spoke with, Julie, was kind, knowledgeable, and provided advice on how I may arrive at my desired conclusion through the initial repair shop. I am grateful for the unwarranted patience and kindness from Julie and genuinely wish you the very best. Thank you again! This is a repost from my Brittany K. account that I lost credentials to. read more

Terrible Service. I tried to set a appointment, ask a few questions and the receptionist hung up on me. find another company to fix your car. I understand why there are so many 1 star reviews. read more

I am so glad for all the honest reviews of this horrible company ,I'll avoid it like the plague and go elsewhere. After speaking to Julie at the front desk basically telling me that they don't trust people that will pay out of pocket and that it will take 6 weeks to get my truck back she hung up on me. read more

Renton collision center Staff is really nice and they delivered what they promised. No hidden charges. My car is very neatly detailed without extra charge. Please note: Hertz rental center at this location charges 8% "Concession fee recovery" and cars for rent are very basic and minimal choice. Even if you inform and extend car rental, you will be charged "late return fee" for which you need to call customer care to get rid of those charges at their mercy. They will only offer basic car, even though you order mid-range car. Hertz Front desk doesn't even print the receipt at the end of your rental and informs that you will get bill in email, only for the fact of not exposing the hidden charges. I highly recommend not to rent from this location. read more

I wish that I had taken my car here to get repaired. The insurance process has been a nightmare. I had my car repaired at a different shop and called looking to get an estimate on what it would take to get my vehicle repaired properly (RCC does not offer this service). Although this shop was not able to assist with my request due to a long standing policy; the woman I spoke with, Julie, was kind, knowledgeable, and provided advice on how I may arrive at my desired conclusion through the initial repair shop. I am grateful for the unwarranted patience and kindness from Julie and genuinely wish you the very best. Thank you again! read more

I spoke with Julie when setting up my appointment to have them fix my car. Julie was amazing. Everything was good up until after I got my car back. The shop had my car for 11/09/2020 to 11/30/2020. I thought it was quite long for the work that had to be done to it, but since I already started the process I figured I would just keep going. I picked up my car and a few days later it started making this unusual sound. My car wasn't making that sound when I dropped my car off so as soon as I heard the noise, I called them and reported it. Julie called me back the next day and told me to bring it in and that they would fix it. They pulled my car to the back, then came back out later to tell me they had nothing to do with it and that I should take it to Honda. I explained again that when I dropped my car off, it didn't make that noise not until after I got the car back from them. But all the guy kept telling me was that he didn't know what it was and basically didn't offer any kind of solution. I thought when I chose this shop to work on my car that my car would be in good hands. Now I am left with a problem that I need to figure out on my own since they provided no solution for it. I'm not sure what they did with my car but I know my car didn't have that problem when I dropped it off. I am really disappointed and upset about this whole situation. read more

This place is a joke. The "family oriented" business runs like a joke. I got there for a collision estimate, and the lady there told me they DONT DO ESTIMATES! She said because some people do estimate and afterwards they don't do the repairs there...So what? Are u not competitive? You don't like people having the choice of where to fix their car AFTER they get the "price tag"? what kind of answer is that? I was rear-ended a few months back and they were willing to do an estimate then but I passed when they couldn't fit me in soon enough. So what changed? The lady insisted this is how they have operated for 40 years? Gimme a break..and BTW fix your ignorant attitude lady Worst customer service ever read more

Took my car here after a collision. Everyone was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Julie at the front desk and Ken were a pleasure to work with. Throughout the repair process I was kept updated about my car and Julie helped me get set up in a rental while my car was being repaired. Will come here again. My car looks brand new. Thanks RCC. read more

They were quick to get me in for an appointment and worked directly with insurance after a person hit my car. They found some more internal damage after they took off the bumper and did a thorough job fixing it to Subaru standards. It took a few days longer to get my car back, but they did a great job detailing the inside. read more

I chose not to fix my car here and can only comment on the service I received when attempting to get an estimate. Years and years ago I had my car fixed here and they did a great job, so I chose to come back when I got into a recent fender bender. I came in around 4:45pm or so (they close at 5:30pm) to get an estimate and they told me they would not do the estimate since it takes about 30 min to complete and I needed an appointment. I've had several estimates done before at other places and they take max 10 min and I've always gotten one without an appointment. Maybe they have a different process? I'm not sure. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and started inquiring about appointments the following day anyway, which is when they told me they charge $25 for the estimate, which I can put towards the repairs, my deductible, etc. ??? I've never heard of being charged for an estimate. Unless you're absolutely positive you want them to repair your vehicle, I would look elsewhere. read more

After a terrible collision on Sunday, I had AAA tow my Mercedes to these guys. At promptly 8:03 am Monday morning, I get a unfriendly call saying they are charging me $75 a day to store it there. I was expecting a repair estimate, no? Of course I had to come in to the office to get that estimate. Some guy walks in, looks at my car through the office window, and tells me it will be more than the value. Okay, now what? They didn't know, didn't care ... just wanted me to make sure I had my car off their property before they close at 6pm. Rude, uncaring and unprofessional. Being in a car accident is traumatic enough, dealing with this company just adds insult to injury. Avoid them! read more

Jim and the rest of the staff here are AMAZING! They are so caring and understanding. I hate to admit it but at the time when i needed their help I was a bit scattered brained. They were flexible and polite when I called (more than once) to reschedule, say I was lost, or running late. On my first inspection Jim made sure my car was safely drivable home after doing the estimate he had one of his guys do a little tinkering to make sure I could get home safe to dicuss the repair with my boyfriend, it was all complimentary and a sign of the caring people who work here. I did of course bring my vehicle to RCC, their turn around time was QUICKER than estimated, the cost LESS than estimated, and they did everything in their power to fit my needs to a T. I don't hope to get in an more accidents soon but I'm so glad to know that this company is here. If you're smart you won't go anywhere else. read more

I recently got my car repair here after someone side swiped me. Renton Honda recommended this place to me and they do not disappoint. Their customer service was on point. They are friendly and informative throughout the entire process. They also conveniently have a hertz representative there, so it was easy for me to drop off my car and get a rental. I would highly recommend them. Fair warning, they are pretty popular so my appointment was 3 weeks out. However, they were able to fix my car in less than a week. read more

Came here to get my rear door replaced and they did an absolutely stellar job! Not only was the customer service fantastic, but I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Good as new! read more

I had a really great experience here. I was the unlucky victim of a rear-end collision while at a stop light so the damage was clearly not my fault. The insurance company of the man who hit me was quite difficult and rude to me even though their client admitted fault and told the same story as I did about my accident. The staff at RCC made sure I was taken care of with a rental car right away and ensured the repairs were done to restore my car to its original condition. They kept me updated along the way and were friendly and pleasant to deal with. I'd come back here for any future repairs I need. read more

This was the worst customer service I've ever encountered. What prompt me to write this review is the estimator, Chris, who had the audacity to yell at mom. I was talking to him about the some damages on my tires (that's another story down below) when my mom got into our car to test the engine. He immediate YELLED word for word "HEY! GET OUT OF THE CAR! GET OUT! IT'S NOT PAID FOR!!" First of all, it's OUR car and I'm not going to pay for a service before checking the quality of the job. Second, I understand every place has their own policy but there's a lot of ways to inform your customer the store policy other than yelling at my mother who doesn't speak English. Chris was completely unprofessional and condescending. His choice of words was accusatory towards my mom as if she was going to drive off with the car and not pay him while I was STILL standing next to him. I, by this point, was very upset and shocked witnessing the whole ordeal and informed him to not speak to my mother like that. Instead of apologizing, Chris got defensive and told me "no I didn't" and completely ignore my complaint of his disrespectful behavior. When I asked to speak to the owner, Chris dodged the request "well you can't, he's in Mexico". Obviously, I did not need to know where your boss is on vacation because I just want his business contact information. Completely unnecessary. As for the repairs themselves, Chris comes off condescending and rude when I asked him why some of the damages on my tires weren't communicated with me when the car was in the shop so I could get them fixed. He told me that it wasn't from the accident so the insurance company did not approve it. I was surprised that he said so with such conviction (accusing me of not knowing what I was talking about) and I informed him that regardless of what he thought happened, all decisions on MY CAR be communicated to me so I could work it out with my insurance. He later admitted that he wasn't at the accident scene so he wouldn't have known how that's a part of the accident. Obviously that's why I should've been informed of the findings so I could explained what happened. He then changed his position and said "well there's a lot of things to communicate. Don't tell me what I should've done".....ok, so his excuse was that he didn't do his job and somehow this was my fault that I'm upset? If you search the yelp reviews for "Chris", there's another reviewer who had the same experience working with Chris so this isn't a unique case. Please just take your cars elsewhere who will treat you with respect. read more

Renton Collision Center has done a fantastic job on repairing 3 different vehicles for us over the last 6 years and we wouldn't take are business anywhere else. The entire staff from the front desk to the technicians all have a great work ethic and appreciate my business. We received regular updates on the progress and even though there were a few delays, we believed it was because they didn't want to cut any corners. They wanted to get it RIGHT! Our insurance deals w/ them DIRECTLY so we didn't even have to meet w/ an adjuster and Hertz Rental Car is in the same building...VERY CONVENIENT. I 100% recommend them. They may not be the "cheapest"....but they do provide Wold Class work for a FAIR price. read more

The Collision Center on 4th by RTC has been very good to us. The girls who are the front staff; I honestly don't know their positions but they definitely don't fall under reception or secretary, they KNOW what's going on with your car. They remember faces, and seem to already know what you're gonna ask Lol They are awesome. And on the Ball!! But we've has no troubles with them. They missed a spot in the body repair ( it happens to the best of them) and they fixed it quickly. They help you immediately, no question is a dumb question and they are very personable. On phone or in person. Have recommend and will continue to do so. The girls upfront being so knowledgeable and on the ball really makes you feel much more at ease. They are great! I just wanted to give 's or 's to let them know they are appreciated. Holy Gumdrops my comment is SO long! Thanks! Erika PS Idk I think he's their claim adjuster or something to that effect, is awesome as well as very calm and explains what you don't understand. He can be funny too. Oh yea and Ken, can't forget him :) They between him and the front desk. They are on point. I believe this is our 3rd time having my Jeep towed there. One of the times they said all I needed was new tires. If they were shady they could've lied and did no work ( I luckily have had that done before! Okay I'm done they rock read more

From the front office to everyone in the back this was a great experience. I was a basket case after getting hit by a drunk driver, but they were very patient and explained everything to me in manner that I could understand. Professional and I trust them to do a thorough job. read more

Let me start of by saying, if I could give them a 0, I would. I was recently rear ended by an uninsured driver in my brand new car. The driver impacted my rear bumper of my SUV and then managed to slide under my car causing damage to the rear bumper and exhaust. I had to file a claim through my insurance to get this taken care of. On top of being frustrated with that I go to pick my car up and I see that there is an "outtie" dent in hatchback right in the middle in the area the other car impacted. Mind you, my car was brand spanking new, not a speck on it. Not sure how this dent happened but I am going to assume it was from the bumper bending up from the inside of the hatch and causing the dent in the hatchback. Then, I look down at my dual exhausts and I see that the right exhaust is still pushed in more than the left. It had gotten damaged by the other car which was replaced. A blind bat could see that they did not line up. So then I become suspicious and go around my whole car and note scratches on the right side of my passenger and rear doors (not where the impact happened) that I know were not there before. I speak to the manager and he acts like he doesn't see the exhausts being uneven, tells me he didn't notice the dent, and says that the scratches probably showed up because they washed the car. (Mind you, my car still had bird poop on it, so I am not sure what kind of car washing that is.) He assures me he will get in contact with my insurance to get approval for this additional work they missed and tells me to leave my car with them. I hear back from them 3 days later from Chris telling me that the dent is not due to this accident, he comes of condescending and just rude and basically makes me feel like I am trying to et in a free fix. MY CAR IS BRAND FREAKING NEW. I work in insurance myself, so trust me, I know what the procedures are. He was so rude and blamed the decision on my insurance. I call my insurance adjuster and she advises me that is absolutely not what she said. Long story short, if you want high quality work and not to have surprise dins and scratches in your car, DO NOT GO HERE. I am having my insurance repair their mess up with a quality shop. Renton Collision has the WORST customer service and basically calls all Insurance customers liars and freeloaders to avoid any additional work because they are LAZY. I remember their guy Chris telling me about another customer who he denied because he was trying to have them fix something that want due to the accident and he was proud of it while I was getting my estimate. Now it all makes sense, they treat all their customers like this. NEVER AGAIN. And I work at a big company that refers people to car shops and will make sure everyone knows about the crappy service Renton Collision provides. read more

WORST EXPERIENCE EVER!!!! They get one star for being nice people... To a point. This is a long but horrible story that anyone thinking of going to them should read!!! Seriously!!! This is the second time State Farm has suggested taking my beautiful Dodge Challenger to them because they are "in their program". First time was a little fender bender on the front bumper. I ended up having to take it back to them after picking it up because they had not put the front bumper on correctly. But I didn't fuss then. Now this time, I took them my car after it had been keyed on one side and backed into by a truck, on the other side. And first let me say that due to the fact that for some reason my car gets purposefully dented in parking lots, even when I'm not parked near anyone, and the two times I let my husband and a friend drive my baby it go horribly wrecked, I don't let ANYONE drive my car or touch my car. My husband can drive it short distances when I'm in the car with him and that's it! I scan my car for new dings and scratches every time I walk up to it. It's habit at this point. Ok, one evening my car got keyed my husband and I were going out of town, so after we went over every inch of it with an officer to make sure there wasn't additional damage, I tucked my car away in my garage and went on vacation for two weeks. The evening we got back I took my car out to get something to eat for dinner and a truck in that parking lot backed into my car.... Ahhhhh!!!! I called in both claims right then and took it into Renton collision center the very next day. They had my car for almost a month while they tried to fix it and order parts. So when I finally got to go pick it up I was focused on looking at the areas they were suppose to be fixing which were on the side rear. I didn't think to take a look at my whole car. But a couple days later when I took my car for a drive in the sun I found two things. The rear bumper they replaced was working it's way off my car, and there was a Narly gouge and scratch on the front bumper, drivers side!! Someone had attempted to cover it up with a paint pen or something but it was a big scratch and SO obvious I was aghast!!!! I called Renton Collision who swore up and down no one there would have done that so I said I'd talk with my husband. But regardless, their work on my rear bumper was coming off. So I took it back to them to fix that. Meanwhile me and my husband began trying our hardest to figure out how in the world someone could have taken my car out of our garage, damaged it, tried to cover it up and put it back in our garage while we were out of town, cause that damage was not there when we went over the car with the officer after it was keyed. Not to mention, no one has access to my key or my car EVER anyways! But nothing made sense. No one had my key but me and it's not a car that can be hot wired and why would anyone put the car back after stealing it!!?? But, my car was around countless people and locked in a lot for a month at Renton collision so who knows who may have gone joy riding in it some night, maybe, and damaged it!!! But Renton collision refused to believe anyone at their business could have been involved with the damage, even though there was no other explanation.... And guess what! My cars rear bumper came off again! Had to take my car back there, as my insurance requested, to give them one more chance to fix the damage they had been paid to fix in the first place, and the mystery damage is now a huge fight!! Talked to the owner of Renton collision, Ken, who ended up being ridiculous in the end. All I'm saying is maybe one of their workers had a kid of theirs "borrow" keys to the lot and go in and joy ride the bad ass cars there, like mine, or something. Who knows?!?! All I know is the chance of someone magically, without the key, driving my car out of a locked garage, damaging it, trying to cover it up, and putting it back in the garage, are pretty damn low compared to the idea that my car was damaged while sitting at Renton collision center for a month where it was around strangers constantly and where God knows how many people had access to the key!! Do the math!! And they haven't even been able to fix what I brought the car there for!!! Left tape marks on my car also when painting it...... Quality work???? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!! read more

These guys went above and beyond when my Volvo got rear ended. Its probably the 5th car we have had repaired there and we always get the same perfection in repair and customer service. They handled the insurance mess and made sure I was taken care of while it was in the shop. Love these Guys ! Ken and hos team really run a great business! read more

Keep this short and simple. Pros: Good communication, clean. Cons: -Car took 12 days longer to repair then they said it, would, which also meant the cost of the rental more then doubled. -The car smelled like smoke when I picked it up, was slight, but my son noticed for the next few days. -Also, there was a hairline stratch on the windshield that wasn't there previously, but not sure of that came from the tow truck, them or the suspension shop they had to tow it to. read more

I took my car here because AAA said that this was AAA certified, all state also has some kind of program with this place, but beside that, On the night of 31st of jan, i dropped my car off there before some lady hit me at 11pm, the next morning i went in and they looked at it and said that it was gonna take 3 weeks. Well ok, it was a pretty bad hit so i understand. 1) they said that every week they will give me a call and let me know how things are going......NEVER happened.... 2)I called on Saturday, and they said everything looks good and that it will be ready by Monday....comes Monday, they said that there was some kind of delay so it wont be ready till weds..... 3) comes weds, i call and they said that they couldn't get my car aligned so it wont be ready till Friday....... 4) comes Friday i called, they said they are not sure when my car will be done....and that at noon they will give me a call back.......at 1:30 pm i call and they told me the person in charge of my car is out on lunch and they dont know when he will return..... now im not sure where my car is..whats wrong with my car, when i will get my car back....also when they took everything apart from my car, they just drew it in the back seat and now my back seat is a mess...all the dust and dirt is all over my seats... on the bright side, they are nice people.... read more

Avoid this business! They charge excessive fees for storage during your repair - $97/day!

Called and made an appointment, but had to drive all the way here to find out that they will not work on a 25 year old car. I found this to be very odd given that their website promised they are a "family owned and operated repair facility that has been an intricate part of the Northwest for two-decades." Location and parking is very awkward and busy. Looks like a high-volume, insurance sell-out outfit. Has a car rental office inside. Not what I was seeking. Not treated well by desk people either. Neither of the desk workers greeted me when I entered the empty office. Waited awkwardly a minute or 2 before initiating them myself. Told me to fill out a form without even looking at me. When I submitted my form worker#1 accosted me for not providing a claim number. Then said my car was too old. Suggested to worker#1 that they should in the future ask customers what kind of car they drive when scheduling the appointment and to bring their claim number. In response to this worker#1 said, "You don't have to be rude." Tried to express that the intent was not to be rude. Worker#1 said they were new and didn't know the policies yet, and continued to say the suggestion was rude. Worker#1 took the suggestion personally which was not the intent. Seemed to be having a bad day which I feel sorry about. Wish worker#2 (with seniority) would have stepped in to placate instead of just watching, which made the situation more awkward. Need some more customer training here. Felt like worker#2 was staying quiet to throw worker#1 under the bus to get fired, instead of helping. read more

Pretty good customer service here. Came in to get an estimate for body damage, the lady who worked with me was very knowledgable and helpful! Thanks guys! read more

They've had our vehicle for over five weeks for what seemed fairly routine body damage. Still no definitive return date.

I appreciated how fast they got the job done and they even detailed the inside of my car and it looks better than ever. Thank you Ken and the team at Renton Collision. read more

I had my car fixed my them and they did an amazing job. Their customer service was always great - nice people and they answered all my questions. They're co-located with Hertz so getting a rental was a breeze. My car looks great and I would absolutely use them again. read more

Just got my car back. It was a wonderful experience, considering someone hit my car. Found the staff to be friendly, supportive and knowledgeable. Not only was the repair perfect, but they cleaned the inside ond outside. WOW!!!!! read more

Great customer service. They said would get my car fixed in about a week, was delivered as promised. They did a great job on the dent. When the car is finished they do a walk through to make sure you did not see anything that was wrong. I am very particular about people doing a great job and I have to say Renton Collision did a very good job. I was having some difficulties with the claim number and they took care of it, without me having to calling the insurance company. Friendly staff. read more

RCC did a fabulous job repairing my large SUV. My bad that I had to get it repaired in the first place! I definitely concur with other Yelpers out there - the front office gal staff is second to none! Not only are they extremely professional and efficient, but they know all the schiz about your ride every step of the way! More than willing to take in another car if need be. Thanks so much, RCC! read more

Absolutely loved working with these guys. Ken, Julie, Braxton, and the whole team are amazing. They treated me and my car with the most respect and got my repairs done so quickly and they are perfect. I would 100% recommend them to anyone!! read more

DON'T TAKE YOUR VEHICLE HERE!!!! They lost my car!! Seriously, they had no idea where it was. AFTER talking with my insurance company and telling them that a tow truck had come to get it, I had to go to SOUND FORD and look because that was where it was supposedly taken on the 17th of April. Now, its the 19th and we were under the impression that its at Sound Ford. IT was NOT! So, after an all day investigation of my own, I FIND THE CAR AT RENTON COLLISION!!!! AGAIN, they had told Statefarm, me, and my husband that it had been towed. This afternoon I made my to renton collision to investigate this on my own. I went to the back and there it was!!! Jose led me to it. I went back into the office and yelled," ITS BACK THERE!" They didn't give one shit. I will be calling the owner because that was supposedly the person that "couldn't find my vehicle" today after being asked by my husband to take a second look! This was the worst customer service I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED! I wasted a whole day wasting my time, doing what they failed to do in the first place! You live and you learn! read more