I have researched minivans for a while and narrowed it down to the best 2 minivans on the market, the Kia Carnival, and the Chrysler Pacifica. Everyone knows the Pacifica is the best minivan with features nobody can match, including all wheel drive (made by Jeep) and SECOND row seats that fold down into the floor. But, the Kia Carnival is all new with tons of great features, and while not as good looking as the Chrysler (it looks like a school bus), it is a whopping $10k less in price, so for $10k, I can haul the seats out and put them in the garage when I need to. I went to DeMontrond Kia and was appalled by how unprofessional they are. First, the salesman refused to put their price in writing! He claimed that if he wrote it down, I might comparison shop. I explained that is how shopping works: a store has a price (in writing), and customers go where they can get the best price. If they want my business they have to have the best price. Second, he explained the price would be $12k-$15k OVER MSRP, including a $2000 receiving fee on top of Kia's $1000 delivery fee. Kia competes with Chrysler BECAUSE it is $10k less. If it is the same price, it can't compete! I explained his price is absurd and that MSRP already includes delivery and profit for the dealership. He told me that NOBODY was selling vans at MSRP, and if I found someone that is I should call him because he would buy it himself instantly (and obvious lie). Disgusted with Kia, I left. I am shocked Kia allows their dealers to price gouge and suspect this is part of the reason they wouldn't put it in writing! I planned to spec out a new Pacifica and order it (at MSRP) from my local Chrysler dealer and made an appointment to get my trade in evaluated and place the order. Meanwhile, Helfman Dodge had one in stock that was close to what I wanted (but not a perfect match). I decided to drive down and check it out. I had no intention to buy on the spot, because I was NOT going to pay over MSRP when I could just order one and wait for it. However, I was blown away by how professional, honest and modern Helfman Dodge was. The salesman, Oscar, was very professional. No manipulation, no slimy trying to warp reality. A salesman that focused on his product instead of "selling". The sales manager, Fransisco, was equally professional. Within minutes, they provided a professional sales order that disclosed EVERYTHING (all taxes and fees broken out by line item). No games or hidden fees. They did have a "market adjustment" - but nothing like Kia's $12k. I buy a new car every so often, so I have lots of experience with dealerships and this was a first; so refreshing! I explained I would still keep my appointment with my local dealer to spec and buy the one I wanted because: a) theirs had options I didn't need or want to a pay for, and b) I would not pay over MSRP. They marked down their van (UNDER MSRP) to accommodate the feature I didn't want and removed the market adjustment. It was a fair deal that worked for them and me. That is proper salesmanship, the art of compromise with give and take by both sides. Then came the matter of my trade. My local dealer had not seen it yet, but they indicated over the phone that Kelly Blue Book was "fair" so I expected to get Blue Book. Helfman was WAY under Blue Book. Who knows how they make these decisions, but I suspect it has a lot to do with how much inventory they already have? This was a deal killer, so I prepared to leave and deal with my local dealership. Oscar professionally suggested I try Carmax (right down the road), as they often hit Blue Book. I was pretty skeptical. I logged onto their website and answered a few questions. In under 3 mins I had an offer on my phone (at Blue Book). I suspected it was a scam to get me to go to Carmax, but decided to give it a try. At Carmax and they looked over my car and confirmed the offer. No scams, no BS, the offer was legit. This was all moving a bit too fast for me. I had only expected to look at a van. Now, I have a fair price for the van, and a fair price for my trade. I discussed it with my wife and shared my feeling it was all moving too fast. She suggested a make a final offer to Helfman as a test, if they accepted my offer it was meant to be and I should take the deal, if they didn't, then we should wait for the perfect van spec'd the way we wanted. I gave them my final offer, and they didn't hit it, but they make a reasonable counteroffer that showed real movement on their part. So there is my story; due to ineptitude and greed of DeMontrond Kia, and professionalism at Helfman and Carmax, we have the best minivan you can buy at a fair price! read more