I tried to buy a RV they were having a hard time with financing. Neil told me he was working on it. The next thing I know the RV was back up for sale with no call or return of my deposit. They say they are family owned and will do anything for there customers. I guess that means not talking to you. Dont buy from LA MESA. read more

My husband and I cannot say enough good things about our experience with La Mesa. We came out on a Wednesday morning where it was extremely hot, John Watters was our sales guy and never once complained about the heat or having to be out in it showing us RVs. John also was receptive to questions with asked and consistently gave us feedback that helped us ultimately make a decision about what we purchased. He was knowledgeable about the products that you carry and the benefits of different brands. Next we met Ian and he was also helpful about financing decisions and being able to truly educate us on different loan options and why one may be better than the other. Lori was helpful with finishing off our paperwork and giving us insight to different warranty products and situations to consider in order to make the best choice on what to choose to purchase. Additionally, she referred us to an insurance company La Mesa uses or is affiliated with and there aren't enough great things to say about them. Finally, orientation and picking up the trailer, Ron Verdino was our orientation personnel and was helpful with the total walk around and inside as well as adding his expertise on different things to look for, be prepared for, and answered every question we had thoroughly. He also made sure the RV was just how he would want to pick it up which made us feel like we were family. During our orientation and our time in the waiting area we had several staff stop by, congratulate, and engage with us which again made us feel like we weren't just a number. Each person we met with offered their personal contact information in the event we needed something the next day or a year from now while out using the trailer. We cannot thank La Mesa enough and their staff for making us feel like family, and continuing to serve us after our purchase. The experience we had kept us from looking any further even though it was the first place we went with a plan to visit several that day. Thank you to you all for everything, you were absolutely wonderful in every aspect. read more

The review is for the Phoenix location, sales person name is Jeff Ridgeway. Hands down the most knowledgable, professional, kind and hilarious sales man I have ever worked with. He knew his stuff inside out and online many we ran into did not use any annoying sale pitch cliché. answered all our questions, patiently explained everything to us and ended up selling us exactly what we wanted. Kudos Jeff from bamintious! read more

On April 30th I spoke with a gentleman at my first call who's name I shall replace with "THE DUCK", he was very polite on the phone but in the end gave no sense of urgency to the problem I had. My A/C went out on my 2008 Tiffin Pheaton Class A. I knew that the temps in Arizona would start to climb in the next several days and I needed THE DUCK to tell me a schedule of some sorts as to when a Technician could come out and solve my problem. THE DUCK took one and a half days still with no answer as to when a Tech could come out. THE DUCK did however, leave me a message at the end of the 1st day saying that he would call me in the next am to setup an appointment. THE DUCK never called, I never received another message......Nothing from THE DUCK! At about 10 am on the second day figuring by now I would surely be at the back of the line, most likely with a two to three week wait as the heat would dramatically start to rise. I called La Mesa in Glendale, Az once again, only this time I spoke briefly to another gentleman who's name slips me at this moment. He recommended that I speak back with THE DUCK and I refused. Then he transferred me to an EAGLE. Service Advisor Dianna T. Now, I explained to the EAGLE (Dianna) all that happened with THE DUCK and how THE DUCK put me behind a whole day and a half almost . You want to talk about service! she took off just as powerful and graceful as a EAGLE. She took my information told me she would check with the Tech's schedule and call me right back with a time. Dianna did exactly like she said...Very unlike THE DUCK. shortly after our conversation the EAGLE soared once again. She called and told me that a Tech would be out to my location between 1pm and 2pm that same day. NOW I AM AWARE THAT AS GREAT AS AN EAGLE IS SOMETIME IT DOES NOT ALWAYS CATCH ITS PREY. My case and situation may be a lot different than someone else. You may not get that same-day service that I received. Just Saying. At 1:50pm another EAGLE arrived. The Technician Jared Smith. I explained the problem and what happened when the A/C went out. After the signing of some quick paperwork, he got to work. quickly found that my breaker was bad. left and came back with a new breaker, installed it, A/C was back up and running. I was very pleased, my family was very happy and we continued on with our stay at the RV park. Sorry about the long theatrics but, in all seriousness, I was let down by THE DUCK. When a DUCK shows you he is truly a DUCK. Stop trying to make him or her an EAGLE. Thanks to the two true EAGLES Dianna and Jared for all your efforts. Much appreciated. To the Owners of La Mesa RV, Recognize and promote your EAGLES! Joseph S. read more

Bought a used 2015 motorhome from La Mesa RV in Phoenix, Az and just beware of what you get. The front seats had seat covers that we did not remove to check the condition. What a mistake, hidden defect to be sure and they say they did not have any knowledge of the condition of the seats. They buy a unit for cash and don't check it out and we are suppose to believe it? We caught other defects when purchasing but missed that one and one other. I would not buy a tricycle from this company, go elsewhere. Buy from an honest private party, there are more of them then the quick buck RV retailers. read more

Bought a micro winnebago in January, the battery dosen't hold a charge, they only warranty it for 30 days. 4 of the 6 cells were dry, wanted to charge me $125.00 labor for a 24hr test on it. I give them a minus 5 star review. read more

On a cross country trip it came time for an oil change so I made an appointment. It took three hours for the oil change and when it was time to check out I was handed the hood bracket and was told that they frequently come off on a Winnebago. What the dealership did to cause the bracket to come off I do not know, why they did not reinstall I do not know. First time I have had an oil change done and left with a vehicle needing more repairs than it needed when I pulled in. Ironically, they have a sign that say something to the effect that if you are not happy talk to us instead of writing a review. I reached out the dealership and they offered no resolution. Repairs were done at anther authorized Winnebago dealer further down the road. read more

I would like to thank the employees of La Mesa Rv in Phoenix Arizona. Salesman Micky Hammond was outstanding. He took time out of his busy days to be on site whenever we were there, even came in on his day off, Sales manger Derrick is the best, listened to our needs and made sure they were meet. Thomas Grader is the best service advisor in the state, if it doesn't pass his inspection he has it re-done. Our rv tech Cole did a fantastic job. Doing things for us that was not included in the work order (shhh don't tell anyone) Overall I would give the whole crew A + .. If we purchace another RV you can bet we will be back .. Fantastic job... Thank You Dennis & Sharon Hulbert read more

Our slides on our 2017 Tiffin were not opening all the way. There was a gap in the wall margins on both ds and ps slides Jim Smith, the Tiffin rep had a mobile Rv repair guy from La Mesa Phoenix come over. His name was Jared. He was very nice and very knowledgeable. He got them all taken care of and gave us some pointers on batteries and other maintenance questions. Thanks Jared Smith!! read more

The parts department must be really busy because you can't raise them when you call in. I should know. I've been trying to get in touch with them for 3 days now and they never answer the phone. Don't try leaving a message. I have and they won't call you back. read more

DO NOT BUY FROM La Mesa RV. Many reviews have already stated similar experiences to mine. Horrible customer service. They smoke and have filthy mouths. This is not okay especially around my children. Found a camper I really liked at Camping world and they talk so much crap about any brand or dealer that is not them. I had many dealers greet me however once I started asking questions or being "too much" for them to handle the sales person would disappear. You better believe I'm going to ask a million questions and nit pick the heck out of a TOY I am purchasing for over 30K. Stay far away from the RV shows they have at the stadium as well. read more

Worst customer service I have ever gotten. I purchased a new $100,000 plus RV. It has tons of problems. A lot of things that leak, don't work and are falling apart. I've been waiting for 5 months for the sink faucet to be ordered. My phone messages and emails are not returned. When I spoke with the manager about the problems he shrugged his shoulders. read more

La Mesa RV nightmare. I sold RV's for La Mesa RV for more than 10 years. I heard customer feedback and negative comments. I was sure that my experience with buying a 2017 $70k Big Country 5th wheel from La Mesa RV would be different. Regretfully, I was wrong. From financing, delivery, service after delivery, all was a nightmare! They damaged our new 5th wheel prior to delivery. They promised to repair if we took the RV. Told me parts already on order. They lied! Said prove it. Luckily I had them write a letter saying they owed me work. Dont trust them, dont take anyone bye their word. I have owned the 2017 5th wheel for 2 months. It has been in service more than a month and will be there even longer. La Mesa RV charges $995 get ready and document fee. So many items broke or not working, no way a service tech put there name on this RV saying systems were operating. La Mesa RV is all about putting you in an RV and kicking you out the door. I suggest that even if it costs more, go to another dealer. read more

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I need to get service on my RV that I bought last December, the heater is acting up and not working it would come on when it wasn't even on and not working at night when the temperature got done to 32' as we went camping in the month of February . So I called to make an appointment they told me they can't get me until May 15 so they hold me hostage right now and can't going camping. This is ridiculous they should be sending me somewhere else to take care of this, Think about this before you buy there or do you service there read more

This the worst dealership for factory customer service. I cannot get my customer service rep to call me back. This is the second go around with fixing things. The first time they totally made excuses , now these issues went to totally braking which could have been fixed the first time. I talked to Winnebago headquarters in Iowa and they said my inverter problem with the refrigerator could be a wiring issue due to the fact the TV doesn't run on it as it should. I tried passing this information along to the dealership but I got no response from the rep as usual. They have had it 3 weeks this time and they told me one week when I dropped it off. Unless they make sure the TV works off the inverter ama I will baby leaving it there whenever they do complete the work. This is my fourth motorhome and the other three were used. I can buy used one and fix all these issues myself and not have to deal with this has in the past. This will probably be the last new RV I buy I've had a few issues with 4 or5 new travel trailers but they were resolved real easy and quick in the past. When I called the service department again as I have in the past, I only what's connected to a voicemail again with no response. Think twice about buying a new motor home from la Mesa RV or maybe if it was the top-of-the-line 300K unit they would be right on it probably. read more

My wife and I went to the RV show and found a wonderful RV we loved. I had a few questions and was standing there with a questionable look on my face. Up walked a sales representative named Steve. He was very knowledgeable answered all my questions without any pressure to buy. We always do research before purchasing anything, the next week we went on a test drive with Steve and his partner Heather. They were so nice no pressure to buy went on a nice test drive and purchased the RV with confidence. I am really pleased with the professionalism of Steve and Heather and the patience they showed while easing my apprehensions about the coach, I highly endorse them and wish them the very best. read more

If I could give a 1/2 a star I would...MISREPRESENTATION is an understatement. We purchased a 2018 Heartland Elkridge last year from LaMesa RV Phoenix. When we purchased it we noticed that it had a few "damaged" problems inside which the salesman quickly said could be handled by a Heartland dealer to cover warranty issues. Not a problem. We were then informed that it had been used ONE TIME as an office in San Diego for a show. Not a problem. Problem #1: We were sold an EvoRV treatment and told we did not have to wax the RV for 5 years, and paid $2160.00 for it: WRONG. Completely false information. #2: This 5th wheel was sold to us as NEW, used at one show only but the bathroom was never used: WRONG. We have only used the 5th wheel one time since our purchase and when we went to hook up the sewer line S**T came pouring out. This dealer refused to acknowledge this as a problem. SERIOUSLY!!! #3: Finally getting a chance to use our 5th wheel and decided we better take it in for a tire check...HMMM...imagine our surprise when we were told the tires looked like they had 5 - 7,000 miles on them, the brakes were shot and the axle had an issue. How can this be is this is a NEW 5TH WHEEL!!! $1600.00 #4: As we stood next to the propane compartment it smelled like gas, opened it up to find a gas leak!! We've never even used the propane. I am COMPLETELY disgusted with this dealership....we didn't even bother calling with items 3 and 4 as we were barely able to get an apology for 1 and 2. I will NEVER recommend or use this company again. read more

I was helped by Gabe Knight and he did a great job. We bought the RV on a Friday and were able to make our trip that weekend. He spent a lot of time explaining the differences between all of the units and never pressured us into choosing one unit over another. I would recommend Gabe if you need an RV. read more

Pam was great! Selecting an rv large enough for my huge family was very daunting. Pam was very knowledgeable and thorough. She led us thru the process from start to finish. Highly recom read more

Our service advisor was Skip. He did an outstanding job! The repairs were done correctly and quickly. Was so pleasantly surprised when our RV was delivered exactly when he said it would be. If you've had dealings with RV repair facilities, then you know how rare that is. read more

I couldn't be happier with the La Mesa team!! They took the time to answer all of my questions, I had a lot, with honest answers and opinions. All aspects were perfect, sales, finance, delivery, and customer service. These guys are true professionals! After reading the posted reviews I kept waiting for the glitch and after going through the whole process there wasn't one, just nice people, happy with their jobs, eager to help us with a gorgeous new toy hauler!! Thank you La Mesa, you guys rock!! read more

My winnebago Itaska 2014 that I purchased in November they hide a few things from me when I purchased it and they will not fix them it's the slide the steps and one of the TVs is not working properly and they sold me also about RV with bad tires it has slits in them luckily I looked at them before I left with the vehicle and had six brand new ones put on did not even offer to pay for any of the tires and I could've gotten a bad wreck with the RV driving it from Arizona to California this place is not a good place to buy an RV they are terrible and I'm turning them into the DMV investigators so beware do not buy anything from La Mesa RV Arizona no more t read more

Purchased a new 2019 Thor Gemini. Should have read dearer yelp reviews and done more research on this Phoenix AZ site. Service department needs an overhaul. Dealt with Richie S, got let go then replaced with new Service writer Steven M just as bad. lack of communication, wrong parts ordered, rv in the shop half of the time. Take your money elsewhere. read more

Crooks! Don't give them your business. Unprofessional and uneducated staff. This was the most unpleasant experience I have ever had. Ken did a walk through with my husband and I on a brand new class C motor home. During the walk through Ken says "don't ever leave cash out in open, you don't want to temp us." "Chances are it won't be here when you come to pick up your rig." I was shocked to hear him say that employees at la Mesa are not to be trusted. The service department is incompetent and promised to make repairs on a new motor home (microwave never worked, hub cap missing etc there was a list) They had the RV for months do you think they did the repairs heck no! They are crooks. I don't know how they are in business but I sure hope somebody locks the doors on them. I plan on taking them to small claims court that's the only resolution. Save yourself the headache and do not give them your business!!They have our money and could care less about returning phone calls. I will be taking our new rv elsewhere to have it serviced. One last thing I would like to mention they offer lemonade in a reused water bottle. Nasty! read more

We bought a new motorhome from La Mesa RV in February 2020 and it is now late September and have not had a successful trip yet. It has been in the shop more than we have used it. It is currently in the shop (for the 4th time) and has been there for 6 weeks. Whenever we take it in for repairs, the customer service department says the problems have been solved, but every time we pick it up, all the repairs have not been made. We are making payments on a motorhome we can not use. We are extremely disappointed and frustrated that we spent so much money with a dealership who provides such poor customer service. We regret buying from La Mesa RV. It has been a terrible experience! read more

After this service, things with LaMesa went downhill fast. Ultimately I had to take the coach to the factory in Indiana because La Mesa was unable to fix many of the problems after multiple visits. read more

We bought a motorhome from them in October. Still have not gotten the repairs done that they have promised. The worst customer service and service department I have ever experienced. Do not buy from them. read more

If anyone out there plans on shopping for a new RV, Fifth Wheel or Travel Trailer, DO NOT, repeat DO NOT go to La Mesa RV. Their customer service, their tech service and attention to detail has been absent. Since our purchase on November 31st, we have had 19 defects, and actual possession for two weeks. The trailer will be in for repairs for three more weeks, we will get it for one week to take it on spring break, then return for an undetermined amount of time for final repairs...assuming nothing else is discovered defective. La Mesa offers NO better response than hopefully all the problems will be resolved soon. Zero comfort or compensation is being offered for any loss of our time or enjoyment. Hopefully nightmare will soon end. If I could give zero stars, that would be more appropriate. I have honestly tried to find anything positive to add, I just can't. read more

It took 2-1/2 months to have warranty service completed on my brand new 2021 RV that should have taken less than 3 weeks. With absolutely no progress after 7 weeks of waiting with my RV at the service center, I had to intervene with the dealer and do their job to contact the manufacturer to determine the course of actions required to complete the repairs. I was continually not told the truth regarding the status of the work and had to constantly oversee the service advisor to keep things moving. The service advisor found out after 7 weeks, he had the wrong email address to the mfg only after I coordinated a telecom with the two. The mfg actually called me to request finding someone else to deal with, due to the lack of response from the service advisor. After receiving a call from the service advisor that the RV work was completed, I went down to pick it up, only to find that 2 of the items on the work order were not completed and the dealer wanted me to sign off that the work had been completed and take the RV home! I had to forfeit $400 for a rally I signed up to as well as pay for 2 Uber trips because of the incompetence of this dealership. I had called the Service Manager, Customer Relationship Manager, and sent a letter to the CEO asking for help which did not produce positive results. This was the worst experience in dealing with any type of dealership and will avoid them at all cost in the future. read more

We purchased a toyhauler from La Mesa RV. At the time of purchase the service was fine. We bought it used and it had some flaws and we bought it as is so that was fine, it was still in good condition. Unfortunately, we wanted to order some very simple parts, just for cosmetic repairs. Multiple times we sent emails, made phone calls, sent pictures of what we needed. We went round and round with the parts department, terrible service, a very rude incompetent woman,would not return phone calls, and most of the time nobody would answer the phone when we tried to call them, and left multiple messages still no response. When we were able to reach a live person they acted like we were bothering them, and we still have not received any information, not even to get a price or if they are even able to get us our parts, its been a month and nothing. Don't bother with this place. I give them one star only because it is the lowest you can rate. read more

DO NOT BUY A CAMPER HERE! I purchased at Rowley White (love them) for a Genesis and before them i had a Stellar Fifth wheel which i purchased from Cactus RV in Tuscon (also love them) and I REGRETTABLY bought my third camper from LA MESA RV. They are absolutely horrid, good luck trying to get a call back. I dropped my Cyclone fifth wheel (which i purchased brand new 10/15/17) off at their service center at the end of November because all the jacks failed, the slider stopped working and the fascia fell off.... it is now 1/31/18 and no one bothers to return my phone call and let me know the status of the repair. I should also add this is the third time i have had to take it in, i have called 4 times over the last two months and my "service adviser" Richie, has NEVER called me back. I called Heartland and complained to them, only to be told that "La Mesa RV is the worst of all the service centers that repair Heartland products." Don't make the same mistake i did, don't by a Heartland product and certainly DO NOT go to La Mesa RV. read more

We purchased a RV at their big sale in February. We were traveling thru AZ so read reviews about LaMesa RV. We have been very disappointed in many ways since our purchase. We were promised our 5th wheel to be ready by 3 p.m. on sighing of final papers. It was not ready until after 5 and when it was it still wasn't fixed properly. It was 5 o'clock on Friday so the entire service department left for the weekend. Now we are trying to get our license plates and it was titled in AZ and we live in SD. We have emailed and called the business department and still no return call. At this point I would never recommend LaMesa RV to anyone. Seems they take you money and then you are not an important customer anymore. A very dissatisfied customer. Vickie G from SD. read more

I purchased a new 5th Wheel RV here and luv it. The sales department had great salesman and enjoyed the experience with them. However, as usual, a new RV has issues. Those being the bathroom sink leaks, the light fixture over the sink leaks saw dust into the sink along with the pantry door being misaligned as well as the drawer under the fridge. I got it back a couple of weeks later and the work was not the best and the sink still leaked. The worst issue was someone took a dump in the toilet and didn't flush. When I pulled it back and parked it in my storage I realized the contents of the toilet splashed onto the bathroom floor. I had issues with this company years ago and swore off using their service department. Should have stayed away. read more

I was very pleased with the Mobile service with JARED Smith . He was very polite and fixed all my problems in my 2018 Travel Trailer, and would recommend his service to everyone I know. Thank you JARED. read more

Sure wish we had read these reviews before going to La Mesa RV! We felt like we were at a timeshare sale! Noah took us out on the golf cart and started showing us some travel trailers. We let him know from the beginning that we were ONLY looking today. He then left us for about 15 minutes then returned with his sales manager, Mickey. Mickey then started giving us the "sale". Once he realized we weren't buying today he then left us in the middle of the lot to find our own way back. We would never purchase from LA Mesa RV. They are only interested in the quick sale. read more

I would give negative stars if possible!!! I just got home from driving for three straight days. My experience with this company was horrible. My husband and I negotiated a deal with two dealers from this RV lot. We set everything in motion almost three weeks ago. We were buying sight unseen but they took videos for us which we were excited about. We were buying a new Tiffin RV at almost $300,000 and trading in our 5th wheel which is only 2 years old. We spoke on the phone many times getting the deal set and they requested a week to 10 days to get our coach ready (go through everything). We gave them 10 days and he said it would be "pristine" when we get there. We drove through 4 states as we live quite a distance from the dealership for two days pulling our 5th wheel. We spent a great deal in diesel but we were happy about what we were getting. We were scheduled to arrive on Wednesday around 1 but got their a little earlier excited to see our coach as this was the first time we would see it in person. The first thing our dealer told us was their was a recall on the coach and they were doing it now. We still asked to see it. When we got to it the coach was anything but "pristine" as promised. Completely filthy, which we were willing to overlook as it had rained the night before. Upon looking at the outside it had a few scratches that needed to be fixed, some over spray paint that had gotten on the coach and a few other issues. Then we asked if he could let us inside (slides weren't out but we were still excited to see it anyway) so as he was opening the door he told us that "oh by the way, something was dropped on the tile step and it's broke." We asked when can it be fixed? He said they are trying to locate someone to fix it but haven't found anyone yet. I asked him why it wasn't fixed in the 10 days we gave them and all he said was "I don't know". He obviously knew about it but didn't get it done. I asked how long it took to fix and he very casually said 24-48 hours but preferrably 48 hours. Then he preceeded to tell us just to take possession of the coach and have it fixed at our local dealer under warranty then decided maybe it wasn't under warranty because they broke it. Also we were taking possession in another state and had to have a company drive it for us on Thursday and this was Wednesday. So then he said well they can't do it on Saturday so you will just have to stay until Monday! Thats 5 days later!!! Upon further viewing of the inside of the coach it was very apparent that they had done nothing to prepare or check anything as wires were hanging down and scuff marks on the interior and all our dealer could say was we were 2 hours early. I don't know what the purpose is of the ten day prep when all they were going to do is run it through the washer and pass it off as "pristine". What really made us mad was the arrogance of the dealer never never once apologized for the situation or gave any comfort or guidance other than I guess you will have to stay for five days. Let me just say that we loved the coach and had the check ready when we got there other than the fact that they just didn't do what they said and we had two dealers working with us and they both dropped the ball. I guess they thought it was already sold. We told him we were going to go get lunch. We were so mad at the arrogance and lack of customer service and the fact that our time was unimportant and we could hang around for 5 days just to get done what they should have done as promised. By the way this coach had been on their lot for 200 days so they should have been doing back flips that it was sold and remember we drove for two days through 4 states hauling a 5th wheel that we had cleaned thoroughly. It cost us close to $1,500 to make the trip but it was worth it to us to get our first Tiffin Motorcoach. We both agreed that we were done with this kind of treatment and lack of customer service so we called him back and said no thanks. Then they started backtracking trying to "save" the deal but we were tired, mad and disgusted so we turned around and headed for the long trip home. We received two more calls that afternoon checking if we were still on schedule the next morning at 8:30 to sign papers. Are you kidding....they didn't even tell them we weren't buying the coach? The two people on the phone were the nicest and most apologetic people we talked to. Maybe they should be selling instead of doing the paper work. We just got home late tonight from driving for two days to get back home and I wanted to type this review while it was fresh in my mind, all of the tanks of diesel, hotels and money we spent on this fruitless venture, and what should have been a very exciting time to get our "pristine" first coach and what a total joke this actually was. Oh and the dealer did finally text us saying he apologizes only for the broken floor tile and call if we change our mind on buying it!!! read more

Thought with bought a trailer. We gave them 4k for down payment and signed purchase paperwork. 5 days later, haven't heard from them for a walk thru. Called had walk thru set up. Found out after walk thru, we didn't buy the trailer??!!?? BAIT AND SWITCH-!! Now it's been 4days and still do not have my money back! read more

Thank you to Elliot and Nathan for making what started out as a Very Bad experience end up an OK experience..Appreciate the time and attention both of you guys gave to us and our motor home issue..Renee read more

BUYER BEWARE. THE SALES DEPT IS THE WORST. NO FOLLOW Up by salesperson or sales manager took a week after several phone calls to get answer on $30,000 travel trailer shouldn't have to chase them down to buy something. Needless to say we bought elsewhere so should you!!!!! read more

All the comments about lack of customer service is true! After we bought out RV we got treated like crap. Phone calls were not returned and when we finally got a hold of the guy who sold us the RV he stated he was too busy because he was on his way to another RV show. Our RV is a 2020 Odessey Entegra and the Refrigerator has to be' replaced. The radio system had to be' replaced. After you buy an RV no doubt you will not get the same service as you did when you walked through the Door. I will never ever do business with La Mesa again. read more