Came here for their lunch buffet which is a good deal. $20 for all you can eat Indian lunch. The buffet includes fresh roti brought to your table. Items include rice, daal, pakora, veggie korma, a potato and veggie dish, beef curry, butter chicken, chicken tandoori, and dessert. Very filling and the flavours aren't bad at all. The Tandoori in particular was pretty good, tender and juicy and full of flavour. Would come again for all you can eat. read more

Great sit down restaurant and ambience in a nice neighborhood perfect for date night! Food was on point! The samosas were yummy, warm and crispy. The 2 sauces that were served with them (mint chutney and a sweet sauce) tasted great! We had the basmati rice, chicken coconut entree and spinach and paneer naan bread and it was enough to share! Good prices too on beer and cocktails compared to other restaurants. read more

Came into here wanting some Indian food for lunch, and well I was literally surprised with an All You Can Eat lunch for $18.95 before tax for lunch and they had so many choices of curry you can eat. I totally was not expecting this at all, because it wasn't advertised anywhere on their menus, neither was it advertised outside when you walk by it. You gotta know in order to know. I only came here because I work near by and wanted some Indian Food as a craving in the North Shore. To be honest, yes the waiters seem very dismissive and judgemental, but they had the whole "gatekeepy" vibes, which was a good thing in my eyes. And now I am sharing it with everyone, because they had such a good deal for lunch. Every buffet lunch comes with a basket of Nan, and with a lot of choices of curries, the only one that they didn't present was paneer and I was sad because of it. Paneer is one of favourite choices because CHEEEEESE. LOL. Anyways, I will be back for maybe some more lunch buffets, if I feel like it, and maybe bring some co-workers as well. Pretty good find in the North shore, so yea, it's a win for sure. read more

Went for lunch on a Friday. Decided to order from the menu instead of the buffet and we were not disappointed. The food comes out with warmers, so your curry stays hot as you eat. The naan was perfectly cooked. My husband loves real, spicy vindaloo and received just that. He said one of the most perfectly spiced vindaloos he's ever had. My son got dal makhani, his go to order, as well as veggie samosas and a mango lassi. All were delicious. I got the shahi paneer with naan and it was the best I've ever had. I also tried the Tandoor wings for an appetizer and they were perfectly seasoned and cooked. Definitely recommend if you're in the mood for delicious Indian food. The service was also perfect. Someone comes around frequently to refill waters and the timing of the apps and the main dishes was perfect. read more

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When a restaurant attracts a lot of customers who may be looking for their comfort foods, then you know it's going to be good! We've ordered from here a few times now and while on the spicier side, the sauces have always been rather delicious. I've had to knock off a star as our prawn dish had the prawns rather overdone, but the rich, creamy sauces don't disappoint. They also have some lunch and dinner specials worth checking out. A solid choice for Indian food in North Van! read more

Favourite Indian spot on the North Shore. The service is beyond expectations as they are so friendly, fun and accommodating. The lunch buffet is crazy cheap for the quality and quantity of food. Cute low key spot with great decor! read more

Came here today but didn't try the buffet as the selection was pretty small. The bill for 4 came to $80 but we had lots of leftovers to take home and we were all extremely stuffed. Prices are reasonable, and portions are big, so you get a pretty sweet deal here. Food came hot and they have a candle under the food so it doesn't get cold, which is greatly appreciated. Food quality is above average, though not spectacular. Ambience is decent with Indian music playing and service is okay as well. Appetiser Platter (4/5) The fam liked the chicken a lot. I thought the veggie pakoras were a little too doughy and dense. Holi Masala's pakoras are the best I've had so far. The samosas were alright, but I wasn't the biggest fan of the spices in them, although the samosas did have a nice crispness to them. The chutneys and sauces were also pretty good. Beef curry (3.5/5) Not too bad, but my family said that the beef was a little overcooked and hard to chew. The flavours were good though. Chana masala (2.5/5) Not a fan of the taste. I'm not sure what spices they used but it tasted different from the ones I'm used to having. The chickpeas could have also been cooked a tad longer to soften them up more. Bharthi (4.5/5) Pretty good, but it was a little too spicy for me even though we ordered mild. It's probably just because I have a low spice tolerance, but in my defence my fam's spice tolerance is 100 times worse than mine. Veggie Curry (4.5/5) Cooked in a house special sauce, this curry had the perfect amount of spice to it (aka not that spicy at all). The veggies were all cooked perfectly, with the exception of the carrots, which needed to be a lot softer. Flavour was good, and the vegetables tasted fresh. Chickpea roti (4/5) Personally I thought it was just okay, but my brother really enjoyed it. It's dense and crispy, and doesn't have the texture of normal roti. It's more like a thick cracker in my opinion. Garlic naan (5/5) This was so good! The naan came out piping hot, and it was super fluffy and delicious. My brother refused to give my dad the last piece lol. He's a true bread boy at heart. Overall, this place has pretty solid food at decent prices. I would definitely recommend coming here if you're craving Indian food and are in the area. Definitely get the garlic naans as well! I wish they had vegetarian and vegan options stated clearly on their menu, but as of now you can just check their website. read more

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The worst restaurant in all of Vancouver, the behavior of the staff with the guests and those who deliver is very bad and they do not respect at all, and we went there several times and were not satisfied at all, and I do not recommend it to you at alllll .Never read more

Service: 10/10! Witty & the perfect guide to Indian cuisine. Quick to cater, casual & professional; observant. Food: 10/10!!!! PaneerPakora - PERFECT thin layer of deep fried crispiness with a savoury & soft cottage cheese interior. Delicious & not too heavy. Chicken Vindaloo - Perfect amount of spice & tanginess with the just right amount of coconut flavour Chicken Saagwala - Perfect amount of spice infused with a savoury hearty earthy flavour. Garlic Naan Bread - I did not expect it come out topped up with all that goodness, for a second I thought it was flatbread (the pizza kind). This restaurant is a gem... read more

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I went for the lunch buffet with someone who wanted to go there because they had been there before. Terrible food. Terrible. I love south Asian food. I've eaten loads of it here, in south and east Asia, and in the UK where it is big. Terrible. Also the waiter didn't give us a second look. Fully dismissive. There's good Indian food in N Van, just not here. read more

Hands down THE best butter chicken I've ever had! I've been going to this place since I was a kid and it has never disappointed me ever. I always order the medium spice butter chicken and my god it is so damn good. The flavours are insane and the colour is a vibrant orange. This time around my mom and I went for my bday lunch. We got two samosas to start - one beef one veg, I actually enjoyed the veg one best! The two sauces that come with are addicting too. I also always get s mango lassi to go with my butter chicken and it is still one of my favourite drinks. It compliments all the spice and flavours so well. We also ordered a plain naan which again is one of my favourite breads of all time. Chewy, soft, puffed and charred in all the right places, I'm seriously obsessed. I could dip naan into anything and it would be glorious. Thanks again Palki for the incredible meal! read more

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I had been referred here by a local friend. And yes it definatly lived up to their hype. We ordered for takeout and I liked the fast service and friendly staff. Very classy decor but still a relaxed atmosphere. We ordered the Butter Chicken based on other reviews and wow!!!! Sooooooo worth it. Fantasticly creamy with lots of heat. I was able to order it as spicy as I wanted and yes it was perfect. Also ordered a vegetarian curry and was very happy with the wide mix of veg and lots of taste and heat. We added on a garlic naan and the keema naan with filling in it. Both were gone very quickly. They don't skimp on quality or taste. We are definatly going back. read more

Palki Restaurant - Elegant but still a relaxing atmosphere. - Indian Near Me - North Vancouver, British Columbia

Excellent food every time! Highly recommend the tikka masala and the samosas. Service is also attentive and friendly.

It's been a while since we've had a good Indian meal. We've driven past this place a few times and this time we went in. The place just off Lonsdale around 15th and it's very nice. Nicely designed and good interior. My partner and I ordered butter chicken, basmati rice, naan bread, and another dish that was spicy. All the dishes were delicious. So good. It's true - this really is the best Indian cuisine. We'll definitely be back again soon. read more

Palki Restaurant - Indian Near Me - North Vancouver, British Columbia

My wife made reservations here during our trip to Vancouver and it was hands down our favorite place! It's not in the city which is a plus, so less traffic. Parking was no issue there's street parking but also a parking garage close by. The Food and Service was so amazing and clean. We ate here our first night and our last night before going home! Would definitely come back here when we come we come back to Vancouver. Do yourself a favor and eat here. The Butter chicken, the Mussels and the Coconut curry prawns. OMG!! So Good!! Thank y'all Palki Family for being so Generous!! read more

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Date of Visit: Sunday July 27 2014 Time of Visit: 7:30pm It had been a while since I have had some good, tasty Indian food, and I was having a total craving from naan bread and curry sauce, so, based on a recommendation from a friend and the reviews on Yelp, I decided to have my work dinner meeting at the North Vancouver Indian restaurant, Palki on Lonsdale on Sunday evening. The restaurant wasn't overly busy, which at first, caused a little worrysome, but I soon realized that it was still super nice outside, and the sun was still shining, that most people are probably out having BBQ's at the park or on the beach. We were greeted and sat down right away, and had water brought to the table instantly. We soon ordered beers, and those two came within minutes. Service was great so far, and I had a cold frosty glass for my beer, so I was already happy. My friend and colleague told me to take over the ordering since he would eat anything I ordered, and I was the one who was having the cravings, so I knew exactly what I wanted! So we ordered the following: - Vegetable Pakora - Paneer Pakora - Coconut Chicken Curry, Medium spice - Matteer Paneer curry, Medium spice - 1 order of naan bread - 1 side of regular rice (food porn pictures attached!) First off, everything was delicious and came out piping hot!! The pakora's tasted great, and were not overly greasy which was nice. Portion sizes were quite large for an appetizer, and they came out within five minutes of ordering. The coconut curry and Matteer paneer curry were very tasty as well. I preferred the paneer over the chicken though, as I found the curry itself just had a bit more flavour. Both dishes were served in a metal round dish, that had a candle underneath them which kept the food hot the entire time, which was crucial as my friend and I were talking so much, if the food hadn't been in these dishes, it would have gone cold. The only thing I would mention is that I was surprised how mild medium was. I read a review on here saying that their food was quite spicy, and not to order the food too too hot if you don't like too much heat. So I opted for medium thinking I would get a little bit of heat, but not so bad that I can't taste anything and my mouth is on fire! However, medium was very mild, and I never broke a sweat once.....so if you want it to be a little more hot, I would definitely try more than medium. All in all, great experience overall. Food was delicious and the service was great! Would highly recommend to anyone, and I would definitely be going back in the future! read more

Palki Restaurant - #foodporn - Indian Near Me - North Vancouver, British Columbia

This place is amazing. I'm convinced that everyone who gave it a bad rating must have this restaurant confused with some far inferior joint. Hands down the best Indian food I've ever had. Ive never been so sad a meal had to end. read more

Beautiful and clean restaurant with amazing food that had A LOT of flavour! Ordered a chicken tikka masala and fish masala with rice. 10/10 Top restaurant in North Van! Highly recommend! read more

My favourite Indian restaurant in town! They have a $12.95 lunch buffet Mon-Fri. I went on Sunday and I believe it's $2 more on weekends. I usually get "hot" for butter chicken when I order from the menu. They had "mild" for buffet. I wish they had something spicier but can't complain for the price i paid! I ordered prawn pakora on the side and it was delicious! I'll go back for dinner next time and order my usual hot butter chicken and prawn pakora! read more

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While in Vancouver, my family and I went to Palki Best Indian Cuisine for lunch. As it turns out, their lunch offering was a buffet with salads, rice, assorted curry dishes, and tandoori chicken. The food at Palki Best Indian Cuisine was good. The curries/stews were not unreasonably spicy, so I believe that most people would enjoy their lunch buffet. The service was okay, but there was room for improvement - It would have been more enjoyable to have a more attentive server. Recommendation: -Lunch buffet: it offers a variety of dishes to sample Verdict: While not my favourite Indian restaurant, I'd return. Food: 4/5 Service: 3/5 Overall: 3.5/5 read more

Best Indian restaurant in town! Such a lovely surprise moving to NORTH VANCOUVER from East Van. Very good food and lovely staff. My daughter loves the butter chicken! Portions good for leftovers which is good for the family. Raoul friendliness and smile makes our day! read more

Great food great service. Accommodating a party of 4 without a reservation. Starters of Onion Bajis and poppadoms. Everyone had a main meal varying in heat and rice shared read more

Absolutely fantastic food. As somebody who loves Indian cuisine, this is one of my favorite places to order from in North Vancouver. All of their food is bursting with flavor and color, and there's so much of it in each order that I can save the leftovers for meals the next day. Even as I'm typing this review, I'm already thinking about placing another order soon! read more

This place has gone down hill. It used to be our favourite Indian restaurant in North Vancouver. However: - The food quality has gone down. I used to love their Dal Makhani and Vegetable Korma. Neither are what they used to be. The Chicken Tikka is too dry now, and it used to be the best. The butter chicken is still good, and the naan is yummy and fresh. - For kids, the buffet isn't worth it. They have changed their policy so that kids over 4 years old pay full adult buffet prices. Our seven year old had two scoops of rice, six small pieces of butter chicken, and a scoop of Dal. That was $13.95. Candidly, a rip off. Furthermore, we were frequent patrons and that change in pricing was never explained to us until we had to pay for the bill. - Service is below average. The staff are not rude, but they are not friendly. We frequently have to ask for water and naan refills when the restaurant is not busy. Service has become utilitarian- no smiles or pleasant small talk. - We had a bad allergy experience today. I asked the lady working the buffet and cash till if the buffet pakora had eggs. She said no. I explained that our kids have a severe allergy to eggs and nuts. She still said it was fine. My son tried the breaded pakora and AFTER he ate it, she said that the bread might have eggs - she didn't know. Brutal. When a restaurant is dealing with kids and severe allergies, they should be extra cautious. We dodged any major allergy reaction. If you want an affordable buffet and are ok with average Indian food, go for it. The buffet is a good deal at $13.95. But if you want better quality and tasting food, I would go elsewhere (like Indian Fusion). Lunch Buffet for kids aged 5 to 10 is a rip off. You can go somewhere else and order naan, rice, and three dishes for less money and better quality. After being patrons for five years, after today we are never going back. Never. read more

Palki is Hindi for Universal Disappointment $62 for home delivery, sufficient to feed three brave souls. Food ranged from mediocre to criminal. The tandoori vegetables ($16!) tasted like they forgot to take the cling film off before cooking. boo. read more

Having tried various Indian cuisine from various places in the Pacific Northwest, I'd rank Palki as my best experience (foodwise) yet. Coming from Birmingham, England (so-called Balti capital of the world), I have found it difficult to find anything that compares to back home, but Palki was on par with some of my more mediocre experiences from the old country. I had the Chicken Murgh Korma and my father the Chicken Murgh Jalfrazie (interesting Germanlike spelling of Jalfrazi) and thought both were a little spicy, the Korma in particular. The quality of chicken used was a lot better than I've experienced in North America before and the Naan was excellent, too. The service was ok, but I did feel like the waiter wanted to choose the order and content of our sides for my father and me. I welcome some pointers in restaurants, but I think I can manage the decison of one Naan or two and whether to have chutney or not. All said, our waiter was on top of all his tables and got the food out quickly and pleasantly. The price was a bit demanding as Indian food goes ($11.50 per dish, rices and sides extra). I'd probably take one of my English friends there to get their impression, but I wouldn't rush back. I'm going to try Viji's next in South Granville. I'm told that it is on par, if not better. read more

With the closing of Maurya on the other side, these guys are clearly the nicest, classiest Indian restaurant in North Van. Always been meaning to come here again but due to work objectives in trying as many as different restaurants, as well as it's all the way out here, but I digress. We came here for a business meeting, and made a pact to not go for the buffet due to our early New Years resolutions, but that sure went to the trash can when we first walked in, the buffet smacked in front of our eyes---clever marketing, these guys are taking away my job lol. for $12.95 at this quality, you can't beat it. Taste & selection better than Ashiana on Kingsway, imho. easy repeat. read more

Friendly service and fairly accessible location across from LGH. Street parking. Kinda crowded but always a good sign ! Couldn't remember what we had but they were all decent and delicious. Probably the usual - chix tikka masala et al... My friend asked for "Indian beer" not realizing that there was actually "Indian beer" on the booze menu. read more

Yay Palki! I've been coming here for too many years to even count. It's literally around the corner from my apartment, so you can imagine how easy it is for me to pop over to pick up takeout or stop by for the afternoon buffet. The butter chicken: amazing. The mushroom do pyasa: sublime. The garlic naan: seriously garlicy. Generally, you can't do no wrong with anything on the menu (despite what my one friend says -- don't listen to him, he's a picky vegetarian who doesn't know what he's missing). One more thing they excel at: finding friendly, personable and engaging staff. Hat's off to their newest addition, Jeet. I hope he'll be around for a while, because he was a delight. read more

I don't know about you, but I think every person should have a "go-to" Italian, Indian, Chinese, and Thai food restaurant wherever they live. Somewhere they know exactly what they are going to order, what kind of service they will get and how they will feel once they have polished off their plate. With that being said, we should not be hesitant to try new things! My other half is very critical of Indian food. He is from Trinidad and enjoys spicy, very fragrant food. So I just listen to him for the most part. He orders and I eat. One thing he feels strongly about is Butter Chicken and lamb. He orders Butter Chicken and a lamb dish every time because the best way to judge Indian restaurants. Apparently, it's crucial to a passing grade. Whatever, order it cause I just want to eat. So the decision as to where we would order from took time. Of course we yelped the best places first and we came across Palki. This place is kind of hidden. It's behind the Shoppers Drug Mart on the corner of 15th and Lonsdale in North Vancouver. Definitely easy to miss. The sign is red and white under an awning in a strip mall so you must pay attention. We ordered Lamb Saagwla, Butter Chicken (of course), Gobi Aloo and Garlic Naan. First of all I have never seen garlic naan as big as theirs. And it wasn't just brushed with garlic butter, it was grilled with roasted garlic. Yep! The Lamb was excellent. Very different to other curries I have had. The spinach was pureed in the sauce so it was a dark green colour. I definitely recommend this for people who like lamb but don't like overbearing curries. The Gobi Aloo was fantastic. The cauliflower was cooked perfectly. I always get this when I have Indian food. It's my first choice veggie dish but it is very hit or miss. Palki's was a definite hit! The prices are reasonable for Indian food. I think it was worth every penny. And the BF approved, which is key. We just did take out but i recommend dining in if you can. The place is very clean and has beautiful decor. I think it would add more to the experience than sitting on a floor in an empty apartment with a cardboard box as a table. Yep...we did. Oh and don't use a knife and fork, eat it properly with your hands, that's what naan is for. You'll feel super cultured by the end. Promise. Enjoy! read more

Mmm mm mm... I've only been here for their weekend brunch buffet but it's been a couple times and they've both been delicious. The staff here is extremely friendly (I'm pretty sure the owner thought I was cute... cause he told me... cause he's just that way... and now he'll probably know my name every time I walk in which is always nice). Now. The food. Buffets aren't always the greatest indication of a restaurant's quality, but I haven't been disappointed either time I've been here. I'm a huge, giant butter chicken fan and Palki's doesn't disappoint, especially as far as buffet goes. Very saucy, very flavourful and just a little bit of spice (just the way I like it). I also very much enjoyed their mixed veggie curry and the lentil. The korma was kind of meh. The buffet doesn't have a super huge selection, but it's also only $12, so score, really. Plus, they didn't mind that my friend and I sat there for a full three hours nursing our chai and chatting away (let it be known that we wouldn't have done it if there was a line... the restaurant was fairly busy but not packed on this particular cloudy Sunday). One day soon I'll head over for a real dinner but for now, Indian buffet brunch close to home? Sold! Oh, and we recently got takeout from Palki's Commercial Drive location - huge portions and super delicious! A++++ Would order again! read more

I've eaten here a few times over the years and never been disappointed. Fortunately each time has been with several family members so I've had the opportunity to sample many dishes. My favourite curries here are the butter chicken and the saag paneer, but they also do very nice lamb curry and channa masala (chickpea curry). The lamb kebab and chicken tikka are both excellent, as well, which coming from someone who is not usually a big fan of lamb, is saying a lot. The vindaloo is apparently not as spicy as some "true curry fans" with whom I have eaten here would like, but I still found it very flavourful. If you're a mere mortal like myself who does normally find curry to be somewhat spicy, fear not: there's ice cream (mango and other varieties) waiting for you at the end, and the friendly staff will keep your water glass refilled. If you live in North Van or find yourself in that part of town, or simply just want an excuse to take the ferry and have a great meal, this is definitely worth the trip. read more

I've lived on the North Shore for over a decade and this was my first time going. I had heard from a family member they had a terrible experience (maybe 6-8 years ago) so it made me never want to go. But I was in the mood for Indian and didn't want to drive far. I was actually pretty impressed with the restaurant. Although really dark, the atmosphere and ambience was good. We (2 of us) ordered a lamb curry dish ($13 , wasn't on the menu, I think "methi" or something) and the chicken tikka ($13) with normal naan ($2) and the keema naan ($4, meet filled). Everything was good. We got the curry medium spicy and it was the perfect amount. Felt like dessert and got the ras malai, which was good. Altogether, we ended up paying $41 (incl tax + tip). It was a pretty good value for the price - the portions are pretty large, compared to other restaurants. Three or four people could eat with 3 dishes + naan/etc. We asked for some pickled chutney/chilis and they brought some really horrible salty stuff (tasted right out of a jar filled with extra salt), but took it back when we said how bad it was. Suggestion for the restaurant - tell the waitresses not to call it "naan bread," it's just "naan." You could drive ~20 minutes and get better food at a much better price, but if you're looking for something good that's in the neighbourhood, try this place out. read more

I have been coming to this restaurant for more than 10 years. It is definitely my favorite Indian restaurant on the North Shore. I used to go to Rubina Tandoori on Kingsway and Victoria until I discovered this restaurant. I live on the North Shore so this is the Indian restaurant I frequent the most by far. I love their appetizer platter (generous for even 2 people) . Their butter chicken is the best I have tasted in all of the lower mainland. In fact all of their chicken dishes are very good. Their prawn and lamb dishes are normally very good as well. The exception was the last time when the "pushy waiter" (more about him below) recommended his personal lamb dish - it ended up being disappointing due to it being a bit too chewy (not tender enough in other words). Next time I will stick with the lamb dishes on the menu which have never disappointed. I do not order beef dishes, because the one time I did, I found it to be too chewy for my liking. The "pushy waiter" I referred to has been working at Palki's for as long as I have been going there. He is a real character and I actually enjoy having him as my waiter. I suspect that most long time customers feel the same way as I do, but I could see that someone meeting him for the first time might get rubbed the wrong way. I know he has told me a few times that if a customer complains that the food is too hot, even though they received the mildest version of the dish, that he will tell them there is a Nando's Chicken across the street - I love it! You will recognize him as an East Indian in his 50s with some grey in his hair. But mostly you will recognize him by his attitude. BTW, I should know his name by now, but I have never been good at remembering names since I was dropped on my head - more about that in a future review :) Bob read more

Have been here twice. I am boring and got the butter chicken both times, but it's just so damn good! My partner got a curry that was not on the menu and recommended to him by the waiter. He really enjoyed it. It's a little pricey, so it will never be a regular restaurant of ours, but we will go here every now and then. read more

Absolutely love Palkis !! They have the best Indian food around !! However don't order the hot if you can't handle it because their hot is burning !! For sure try the bitter chicken as its by far my favourite. Palkis has me ordering once a month at a minimum !! read more

Wow, wow, wow. I cannot say enough good things about Palki. My family has been eating here for years. We generally do take out, although I went to Palki for my 20th birthday with my family. Interior is really nice and simple, on the more formal side. The staff is very friendly. And the food is remarkable. My favourites are the kofta dil bahar, chana masala, naan (of course), and the vegetable pakora. I am a pescetarian now, but I previously ate meat and the butter chicken and rogan gosh are to die for. The biryani is also very good. Highly recommend! read more

Excellent food, service, presentation and ambiance. The butter chicken is among the best I've had. I always choose PALKI when I'm in the mood for Indian ..!!.. read more

Met lulu and the grandmas for the buffet lunch. We arrived at 12 noon and it smelled great. One problem, freezing cold inside! Asked the boss to crank it, he blamed it on the out door temp. Utensils and plates frozen to the touch. Had to ask for hot water to drink. They should have offered complimentary chai to warm us. No one took off there coats. Grandma pants advised to skip the beef dish as it was tough. Butter chicken generous with meat though. Go later in the day once the place is warm. Clearly they shut off the heat at nite read more

I cannot say enough about this place! The staff and owners are super great and service is always exceptional. But the star is that BUTTER CHICKEN SAUCE ugh its so good I feel like I would compromise my values, morals, ethics and principles to get at it! The garlic naan is also just soooo yummy - this place could make me fat and I would be ok with it for real. read more