Went in for a septum ring to match my new nostril piercing. The lady behind the counter was super helpful, friendly and listened to exactly what I wanted. High quality septum ring (not piercing) was only $18 which seemed good to me since the other place i stopped was $30. Overall they have a huge selection and now I'm tempted to go back and get more awesome colors/styles :) read more

I got most of my piercings here since they were one of the few places that allowed minors to get pierced with parental permission. Didn't have any issues with the piercings themselves until it came to a follow-up visit. I can't remember which facial piercing it was, but the lady behind the desk who always did them put a size too small on it. When I got it fixed because it was causing swelling, it was a different lady. She explained to me it was too tight at where I got it and I said I had it done here. She immediately said "You didn't get it here" and my teenage self was like oh she must be right so I said oh ok I didn't. On the way out I remembered this was the only shop I could get pierced at--as I mentioned earlier. Was not a fan of how dismissive the second lady was and obviously the usual lady causing swelling with the wrong piercing size. I feel like she was overcharging me too because I was young. read more

Only giving this place two stars because of the experience I had with one of the piercers. I frequently came to this studio with my cousin and all of my piercings by one woman (I forgot her name, had an accent) were always done professionally and never really had any issues. However, my last time going, I decided to get a third lobe piercing of mine redone. A different woman was there (Dominican), and she gave me the option of piercing with a gun. The previous piercer I went to never gave me that option, and I am familiar with the many downsides of using a gun. Nevertheless, I went with this option anyway since it was cheaper. About a month later, the stud had migrated and embedded into my ear. The earring, which was a butterfly back and a big no-no to be pierced with, was tightly screwed onto the stud and would not come off. The earring was so deep into my ear that I had to go to the ER to get it cut out. Never will I ever go to Andromeda and get my ear pierced by this one woman. Her incompetence cost me a $150 hospital bill and many nights of pain. read more

I would describe my experience here as hasty. When talking to the piercer - sort of getting comfy and informed on what to expect, everything was calm and patient. Once I'd decided I was going to do it that day I felt the piercer's disposition abruptly became very impatient with my simple questions. I have an nickel allergy. I expected a stud to be put in but after it was done I noticed it was a hoop. The placement I had in mind was for a stud - so I was a little unhappy about that not being communicated. Nevertheless they explained it would heal faster as a hoop. But that simply wasn't the case. The hoop kept getting banged up during the healing process (duh more surface area). It bled a lot and just felt like it wasn't healing. After two months I was forced to change the hoop to something smaller in hopes it would get caught on things less. That was the culprit! The hoop was not alloy free and kept getting infected no matter how clean i kept it. Pretty annoyed at my experience here. Would not recommend if you have allergies to nickel, or sensitive ears. read more

My friends and I came in on 12/8/2021 because one of our friends wanted to get his first piercings. There was only one lady inside the store and when we talked to her, she told us only one person could be in the store at a time but my friend getting pierced wanted our advice on which earrings to pick as his first. She yelled at us telling us we couldn't all be in there and was very rude to us but then was also okay with me helping my friend pick out the earrings so I was a little confused. She told us we could only pick certain earrings because of the material (makes sense) and swooned over the high quality of the earrings they carried. I pointed to some earrings to suggest to my friend and she kept yelling at me not to touch the earrings and I started to get tired of her temper. Nonetheless, we chose black studs that could be screwed on and then left the store so that she could take my friend into the room to pierce his lobes. He paid around $100 for his earrings, the piercings, and her rude attitude and so far, the piercings have healed fine. I initially wasn't going to write a review, but the black gem in her "high-quality" stud fell out of the earrings a few weeks ago, and I decided this experience was just awful. If you're looking to get piercings, take your business elsewhere where you will be respected and receive quality service and earrings. read more

Back in the day, Andromeda was the place to go for piercings and jewelry. When i needed new jewelry i opted to go in and buy them rather than do it online. Big mistake. I got charged a veritable fortune for super simple 14g jewelry. read more

I took my 14yo son to get his ears pierced today and we had a great experience! I spoke with Natasha on the phone yesterday to ask about paperwork I needed and pricing. She was very kind and helpful. We walked in today around 4 and they were able to take us pretty quickly. Dani went through all the options with my son while I filled out paperwork. Carmen then took care of his piercing. She was so friendly and encouraging and gave advice on the type of jewelry he should get. She finished his piercing in a snap and my son was very comfortable. Dani walked through the cleaning process with my son and they even took pics for us! I would definitely go back for any additional work. They made both me and my son feel very welcomed. read more

Natasha is a very experienced piercer, I recently pierced my nipple with her, and she was super quick and gentle, I barely felt a thing. Due to some natural swelling that happens along with any piercing, I had to switch out the bar for a longer one, and she was very friendly and accommodating about it, and of course switched out the bar pain-free for no charge. Don't forget to tip her! read more

My girlfriend came here for some piercings she's been interested in buying, and after being charged $117.00 for 6 piercings which the lady said to be "stainless steel and good quality", the piercings began to cause pain. Not only was there continuous pain for weeks, it was causing an infection. Though these were attractive colored, the color faded and seemed to just chip away. One piercing seemed to be bronze underneath all the color and steel, definitely faded as did the money which was used on it. Could've been better. read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

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Natasha was very kind an knowledgable and helped me shop for a pierce for my bellybutton as mine fell down the drain. I didn't get anything pierced so I don't know what that experience is like but I can imagine its nice. Much better energy in this space than most piercing parlors I've been to in the area! read more

Horrible place. Bunch of scam artists... They did the shittest tat on my hand, and they told me they would touch it up for free. I bought two matching ones as a memorial for my best friend who just passed away and they charged me $100 A PIECE! Outrageous but it was late and we wanted to do something special and they were open, dumb idea on my part, anyways I came back today to get the touch up and they refused. See the picture..... this was literally a week and half later! Avoid!! read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Worst tattoo parlor in the city! - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

Got a vertical Labret Piercing back in December 2015. My piercer was really nice and I loved her. However, my piercing was crooked. I knew immediately after one day that my piercing was crooked. I came in the next day at opening hours 12 o'clock and waited a whole hour! you should change the hours to 1 pm!! I ended up getting something to eat and returned later to find a chubby spanish (?) speaking lady drinking soup and talking loudly on her phone. I told her my piercing was crooked and showed it to her. I said, "Look, it's crooked. What are my options." She insisted it wasn't crooked, but merely swollen. Than she quickly inserted that they do free re-piercings if it doesn't work out. Yeah like hell I would. I would've rated this place higher because of the professionalism my piercer had (i get it, mistakes happen), but the lady I talked to the next day was complete B****. She was rude, an hour plus late to open the store, and didnt even hang up the phone when I walked in. She had it on speaker!! Awful person. read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - CROOKED VERTICAL LABRET My piercer was nice (mistakes happen) but lady I talked to the next day was horrible - chubby spanish lady on phone - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

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Late but I got an umbrella tattoo there almost a year ago and it's still looking fresh compared to an anchor tattoo I got at another place on St Marks which looks kind of faded, if I had to get a tattoo at St marks I would go here read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Umbrella tattoo - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

If you're looking for a place that will pierce you correctly (AKA no infections!), then this is it. Don't look for the most stellar customer service, though. I got my industrial piercing here a long time ago and it healed like a charm. I returned here a few months ago for a new tragus piercing. I believe the piercer here was the same woman I had dealt with at their sister store, Cassiopia. She helped me pick out jewelry to replace my other tragus' jewelry and helped pick out the jewelry I was using for the new piercing. She was pretty opinionated as to what not to get, as she kept recommending a smaller stud earring for my tragus rather than a larger one. She first replaced the jewelry in my right ear, and then pierced the left. Quick, clean and perfect - except she definitely didn't put the jewelry facing the right way. Oh, and I think she also overcharged me, but I didn't notice until it was too late. Despite the negatives, I feel like this is the cleanest & most popular place on St. Mark's to get a quick (and impulsive) piercing. read more

The lady was very nice but she messed up my piercing big time. I got my belly button pierced and she pierced way too much skin and not even in the belly button. I had to get a longer bar put in because the ball fully sank in to my piercing and created a bigger whole. I had to go up to 16mm length bar, belly button piercings should not be that long. It's been over 6 weeks and it's still not healed because the top ball made such an impression in my skin from the original bar being way too short. Again nice lady but did not know how to properly pierce. read more

Regarding PIERCINGS (I can't speak to the tattoo quality): WARNING: Do NOT go to Andromeda for any piercings. Dreadful. I had my ear lobe pierced here last year, and after months of treating it carefully (avoiding snagging, no touching, no sleeping on it, etc.) and practicing proper aftercare--applying a saline solution twice a day and otherwise leaving it alone--it still hadn't healed properly. Namely, irritation bumps were lingering for months. After consulting with other piercing studios for a few weeks, I finally decided to have it removed and let it heal completely. Since nothing else was working, I figured the irritant that was causing the irritation bumps and preventing healing must be the nature of the piercing itself. Well, I was right. When a piercer at another studio went to help me remove the piercing, he noted that Andromeda has pierced my lobe with far too short a stud, and that it had been getting pulled into my ear during the healing process, thus creating irritation bumps. Further, the jewelry itself (which was that provided by Andromeda) was stuck in my ear--he couldn't twist the back off because the piece was damaged (again, I was very careful with my piercing, so I don't see how the damage could have occurred post-piercing). As a result, he had to painfully pull the piercing out through my lobe, leaving a relatively large wound in my ear. Thankfully, my lobe is now on its way to healing. The whole time, this new piercer just kept saying, "I'm really sorry this happened to you, it's such a rookie mistake for them to have pierced it like this." Please, learn from my experience and DO NOT go to Andromeda for a piercing. While I'm sure there are many people who have had fine experiences, is it really worth risking a "rookie mistake" when there are far more competent studios in the city? read more

The lady was super kind and patient. I went with 3 friends and it was the first piercing for all of us. She was very professional and answered all our questions. I will come back for other piercings in the future if I want them! read more

I brought my 6 year old here to get her ears pierced. They used disposable piercing guns. The piercer took her time to make sure that they would be even. Everything went smoothly and not a single tear. They even gave her a certificate. She was very happy with the experience and no sign of infection as I followed the aftercare instructions Price range depends on the earrings you choose but I paid a little over $100. I did not make an appointment just a walk-in and luckily they were available. In and out in 15-20 minutes. The longest part was choosing the earrings. read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Piercing certificate - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

I went here yesterday and received a nose piercing. Found this place right here on Yelp, saw the mixed reviews, and figured the only way to find out was to go for myself. I walked here after receiving a huge disappointment from Sacred Tattoo. They wanted to charge me $66 for a nose piercing, refused to place the hoop ring, and also asked me to wait 30 minutes. It's more of a tattoo shop if you ask me. At Andromeda, I was greeted and assisted right away. The room was clean, and the person who pierced my nose followed practical, hygienic procedures. She cleansed my nose thoroughly, used gloves the entire time, and all her needles were packaged. No sketchiness here. Wish I remembered her name but she had a bit of an accent and red hair if that helps. (Ginger red not Satan red) Good vibes, my nose is fine, and that's that! There was also a Buddha statue on the counter which soothed me for some reason. $40 bucks! AND I've got the hoop ring in. As long as it's surgical steel, nose stud or nose ring doesn't make a difference. Thanks Andromeda! read more

If I could give this studio zero stars, I would. I went here to get my nostril pierced four weeks ago. It cost me $40 and I got exactly what I paid for, junky jewelry that caused a reaction - the dreaded nose piercing bump. I was sold an ear piercing care solution to wash my nose piercing with two times a day, and this also contributed to the nasty bump. When I went back to Andromeda to voice my concerns after two weeks with the piercing, the piercer dismissed me and told me to continue doing what I was doing and "that should help." Well, the bump got bigger and I started seeking recommendations for other salons to get a second opinion. I went to New York Adorned about four weeks after my piercing, had the cheap jewelry replaced with 14k rose gold and a 1.5 mm diamond, and was told to clean my piercing twice a day with a saline solution, and would ya know... the bump disappeared within 5 days. My suggestion? Don't go to this place. It's trash. Spend the money to go to a reputable piercer. read more

I stopped here on a whim during a quick trip to NYC. I wanted a souvenir of my trip, and I didn't do my research before coming here before getting a tattoo done. That's my mistake, but I want to do my part to help save others who do their due diligence and research from coming here and getting a bad tattoo. I wanted the simple outline of a star on the inside of my wrist. Small, about the size of a quarter. I came in with a couple of friends, one of whom got a small tattoo from the same artist right before me. We were walk-ins (again, I know, bad idea). My friends stayed in the room with me and waited while I got mine done. The artist (Mike) talked to them a lot, meaning he looked at them a lot. Meaning he took his eyes off of what he was doing A LOT. I tried to keep his attention, but things had already gone off the rails. The star was crooked, and I could see no way of fixing it without making it a lot bigger and thicker. There was no way I was going to have this guy do it. I ended up leaving knowing that I just paid for something I was going to have get covered up and fixed soon, since it's the most visible tattoo that I have. I can't recommend Andromeda. Mike was nice, pleasant, and sociable, but sometimes, that can be a bad thing. read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Tattoo by Mike, March 2017. He was distracted when working on it, and it's both crooked and uneven. I wouldn't recommend Andromeda. - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

10/07/2015 First tattoo from MysticalMike last week at Andromeda StudiO 33 It turned better then imagined. MysticalMike is sincere and true to the craft. 10/15/2015 Another great tattoo today from MysticalMike at: Andromeda StudiO 33 NYC Great job brother! I love the work/art you do. See you soon. MysticalMike is Extremely clean, organized and totally awesome. Thank You Brother! read more

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Came here to get my nipples pierced & I regret nothing! The Dominican woman (i'm assuming the owner) made me feel very comfortable. She talked me through everything & explained the grade and size of the jewelry & why she chose it. The studio is very clean & professional. Two of my friends also got their nipples pierced here with me & we loved them! Coming back between now & next month with a couple other friends looking to get piercings done. read more

I used to think this place was good for piercings. I've had a couple done here with no issue, but they've had enough instances of acting up for me to recommend it anymore. The jewelry they sell is the cheap "mall jewelry" type and has caused me a lot of issues. I've even had to retire my industrial because it still hadn't settled in after years. I've since replaced my jewelry with implant grade internally threaded and high quality gold jewelry sold to me by an APP certified piercer. I will give it 2 stars instead of 1 because there are a lot worse places out there. As far as the tattoo side goes.... I really have no idea why someone would come here when there are places like Kings Avenue, Three Kings, Invisible, Smith Street, and Saved in NYC. read more

Amazing place. Got a tattoo here today and every staff member was polite and inviting. The tattoo artist was professional and did my tattoo incredibly. I had someones handwriting done on me and it looks incredible!! I am so happy with my entire experience here. And to top it off the artist had an amazing playlist!! Would 1000% recommend! read more

Me and my sister went to get our cartilage and belly piercing and were very picky about where to get it. We ended up going into andromeda and right away felt so comfortable as soon as we walked in. I believe her name is Carmen, but she was absolutely helpful and we trusted her right away and made the experience so fun. Definitely going to go back! read more

Five years ago, I had my nose pierced at Andromeda and had a really good experience. They were immaculately clean and the piercer was hardcore looking but professional and kind in his work. So, when I decided to get the tattoo that i've been thinking about for the last ten years, I thought Andromeda would be the place. Couldn't have been more wrong. The tattoo side of the shop smelled like a soviet senior citizens home. I get that tattoo artists have a right to be aloof -- afterall they probably get annoyed at all of the NYU students and drunk tourists that want butterflies on their ankles -- but these guys were just plain unprofessional, petty, and mean. And not even in a cool way, but rather in a I-hate-the-world-and-my-mom-can't-make-me-clean-up-my-action-figures way. When I asked if a friend could come in with me, they "reception" guy asked me, "How old are you?" "28," I responded. "So start acting like it," was his final reply. Meaning, no you can't have anyone come into the nasty and tiny concrete rooms where we tattoo. I have spent my life working with people around the world that are dying of infectious diseases like HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria. I have lived and worked in extreme conditions with the hopes of saving lives. So, for some total asshole to assume that bravery has to do with getting a tattoo alone, seems like something to laugh about. But, I didn't laugh. I left. And I got a fantastic tattoo with incredible service at Adorned NYC. read more

I wanted a tattoo on my foot but the artist talked me out of it because he said it would fade very quickly and there's no point. So i decided to get one on my wrist instead (a two line quote in typewriter font). The artist (ping I believe) was really nice, and accomodating.. I kept tweaking the outline of my tattoo but he fixed it with no problems and no complaints unlike the people at DAre Devil who are totally bitchy (screw them). The tattoo hurt but he was done in about 10 minutes i believe. The whole experience was very easy. I'm very hard to work with and he just helped me with anything i needed. I'm also grateful that it was empty that night so my friend and i felt relaxed and not rushed. They have a 60 dollar shop minimum, so my tattoo was a grand total of 80 dollars. Very nice. NOW GO! (for a pleasant experience) read more

I have gotten many things done here. I have a eight tattoos, seven are from here. They all healed wonderfully. I also have five piercings that I've gotten done here and they all healed perfectly fine! This is my default place to go every time. read more

Ew, zero stars. The chick that worked here totally fucked up one of my piercings beyond belief. My skin will never be the same. Also, a major rip!! $$$$ F YOU, Andromadiarrhea. read more

I went to the piercing side of Andromeda to get my nose pierced and it was a very positive experience. The piercing room was very clean and the piercer was very thorough in her explanation and helped me pick out the perfect nose stud. It was a bit more expensive than I'd thought, coming to $58 for everything (this included the stud, the procedure and the two post piercing products that were put on the piercing twice a day). However, it's better to pay for a good job than to go to a cheap, dirty place and get some weird infection. My only complaint was that the girl behind the counter was not very friendly. She seemed like she wanted the customers to leave her alone, even during a friendly conversation. In a retail job where customers need detailed information, she definitely does not belong. read more

Too chicken to try piercing and tattoo but at least I stopped to take a picture ... hee hee. :o) read more

Andromeda Studio 33 - Tattoo Near Me - New York, New York

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I got my nose pierced in Feb of this year. I already have a hoop in my left and I wanted to get my right nostril done to match it. The first red flag is the type of stud they use when they pierce your nose. It's an L type stud, instead of a flat back one, I should have just left when I saw this. However the piercing was only $40 ( another red flag) and I was really set on having this piercing so I went ahead with it. After the piercer argued with me about where to place it on my nose he finally "got it perfect" and pierced it and it's not even close to being symmetrical with my other one! Now with a hoop in both you can clearly see they are not even. This place is dirty, uses cheap jewelry and are just bad at their job. This is the first review I have ever written so if you get anything from this please just do not go here they will fuck up your piercing. They're are so so much piercing shops in St. Marks, do not waste your time, money, and face to go here. read more

My new 'home' base to get inked. It's the oldest tattoo shop on St. Mark's (10 years) and the staff are all amazingly nice guys. They make you feel really comfortable, joke around with you and are completely honest. It's a very clean shop without looking modernized. I walked in Friday night and talked to Joe about what I would like to get. I gave him a picture of (relatively) what I wanted and let him run free with it. Sunday, on my appointment day, I showed up to Andromeda and Joe showed me this amazing drawing, I was insanely happy and couldn't wait to have put on me. The tattoo session lasted about five hours (we were there until midnight) Joe Pollack was amazing, had all the patience in the world, was really easy to talk to and just a really honest person. He knew exactly what I wanted and delivered even more than I had hoped. This will definitely be my new place and I would trust any of the artists. As for "customer service", they work in a tattoo shop and have to deal with ridiculous tattoo requests all day. I really do not blame them. PLUS they don't let anyone sit in with you while you're getting inked, you don't need your entire sorority sitting with you as you get your tribal done. I enjoy all of the dudes here. They are honest people. As for the complaints of customer service... I've seriously never have seen them rude to anyone here. Sarcastic, yes. But you're in New York and look who you're dealing with? People who don't take any shit. I love the dudes. -- ANDROMEDA PIERCING! -- Really, really clean shop. They sell Sailor Jerry things, too. The counter chic (the first person who greets you, takes your info, etc) was really helpful. I chose my septum jewelry, she puts gloves on so she doesn't germ them up. My piercer let my friend in with me, which is nice. The entire process was clean and only took about three minutes. (1 minute of me bitching and being nervous.) She told me what she was doing each step of the way and it was all done. read more

Got my conch pierced here. Usually a very high pain tolerance but this was terrible. For multiple days after, I was GUSHING blood. I mean like for half an hour just dripping off my earlobe. Once I started getting worried because the blood wouldn't stop I went to get an opinion from another piercer and when he saw my piercing he was pissed. I was pierced with a 12 gauge when it should've been a 16 gauge, and I shouldn't have been pierced with a hoop. I'd attach pictures of my ear before the piercing was fixed but it genuinely is disturbing to look at. Please just go somewhere else. read more

I wasn't quite sure how many stars to give this place because 1) I've personally never been tattooed here but my friend was happy with the experience and 2) because the guy barked at us to get out of the shop while waiting for our friend. We knew she was going to be awhile but barking at us to get the hell out of the shop was a little harsh, don't ya think? The place seems pretty clean and I know they have a good rep so I'll stop badmouthing them now. read more

I have to say an excellent place. Very friendly a little pricey, but like they say you get what you pay for. Very clean every thing they use is new and packaged the girl who pierced me was very friendly and talked me through every step. They also have an excellent selection of earrings. If you want an excellent place to get pierced with very friendly and professional people Andromeda is the place to go. read more

WARNING: My experience is graphic to visualize, I would post pics but it would induce vomiting by most. Back in May I got my cartilage (upper ear) pierced by a woman who had an accent, not sure her name. She got blood all over my shirt, used jewelry that was too short in length (piercings swell, you need longer jewelry in the beginning until healing is done), and the back of the jewelry were balls that had to be screwed on. My ear was beat red for weeks, hot, and in so much pain. A friend noticed she couldn't see the back of my earring and that's when I got the horrific realization that my ear was "healing" OVER THE EARRING!! I went to Jewels 32, across the street from this shit hole and they were beyond amazing. He explained what went wrong and wouldn't touch it. He said I must go to a doctor immediately to get it CUT OUT!! I called so many doctors to see if anyone had experience and couldn't even find one to see. I just kept cleaning my ear, 3 times a day, and after months of pain the back of the earring started to show. My brother used metal cutters and had to cut the earring out! My ear is finally healed, 8 months later, with no earring in it. What a waste of money and pain. I left out a lot of gory details but if you are thinking of going here, message me for the pictures! If I could give less than one star I would. read more

I got my septum pierced here yesterday by Chrissy (I think?) Overall, a good experience. I was kinda shocked that there was no one there but the 2 women working there, since my piercing shop at home is always full of people, but hey, the more attention for me! I told them what I wanted, and was set up. I was kind of pissed that I had to ask to choose my own jewelry- the "default" jewelry was exactly what I didn't want, so I'm glad that I noticed in time and could make the change before it was in my nose. But hey, she gave me 20% off my jewelry because it was my 18th birthday, so not so bad. I think it totaled $47, which is a damned good price for piercing and jewelry at a professional place. Once I was set up in the piercing room, the piercer was really great about explaining what she was doing, telling me that yes it would hurt but that most people found it manageable, etc. She also was super-sterile, which is always nice to see-- changed her gloves at least 7 times, whenever she touched something non sterile, used individually wrapped tools (clamps, scissors for bending the needle, needle, pliers, etc). It took her a while to get the jewelry in, which was fairly painful, but whatever, it could have been so much worse! overall, good experience. I got some hostile vibes from the person working the counter, but other than that it was pretty sweet. I wish I'd had enough cash on me to leave a tip (I know, I'm a terrible piercee, please don't give me shit). read more

No one was really *nice* to me here, but I don't ever really expect tattooers and piercers to be nice to me anymore after spending four years in a small city where the only body piercing/tattoo place had the rudest employees ever. Anyway, I didn't get anything done here, just came to buy a nostril retainer. it was the only place I could find that had clear nostril screws, so just remember that in case you need one sometime. Everywhere else only had the studs. The jewelry was made with silicone, so it's a little bit nicer, granted, but it was still freaking $18. That's a lot to pay for a tiny piece of clear jewelry. In the past, I've had my nose close up three times now, so I always ask to have it done, and they looked at me like I was crazy for asking for it. While I was in there, some guy came in to complain about his nipple piercings, and I thought they were pretty rude to him, too. But the place looked pretty clean to me and they had a bigger selection of jewelry, so I'd begrudgingly use them again. read more