Xtreme xperience !! My dad taught me to love cars and fast cars and when this opportunity came my way I was thrilled ! Arrived at Sonoma Raceway and we had a safety class and intro to the race track . Then we picked out the cars and I was able to get the Lamborghini Huracan!!! Racing the car was a dream !! Super powerful and just wish I could have gone more than 3 rounds ! Wonderful all the way and highly recommended!! read more

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Was our best trip to this track, ever. When you camp out there, Thursday, you can come in at 10:00a.m. and set up your rig, then you can leave the track and explore Sonoma county, traverse the track grounds 20k plus steps if you want. Stair climber are you? Hit the grandstands. Plenty of work there. If you're parking it can add an additional 5k in step unless you implement shuttle services. They have one of the most efficient systems I've seen. ADA services are epic as they get these folks to the track seamlessly. Seniors get their rides ride too :) Food and drink prices are high and it's pretty standard fare, but if you're camping, you've got all of that covered. The NHRA is shrinking. While they're trying to keep the sport growing, sponsorship for these cars has dropped off significantly over time. There were once over 20 TFD qualifying for the 16 slots on Sunday. I don't even think there were 16 to qualify. You'll want to attend a professional event sooner than later before the sport evaporates completely. read more

Sonoma Raceway - Nitro! - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

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I was there for the NASCAR races a few weeks ago. There was some confusion about where to go for handicap parking but otherwise it was pretty accessible for me and my mobility scooter. Unfortunately there was one van whose mechanism for lifting scooters/wheelchairs broke down so I was stuck there for about 30 min. But I want to commend driver Bob, he saw that my husband had left his phone in the shuttle and drove back to the grandstand area and gave the phone to Sue who was the person in charge of loading the shuttles. When we frantically returned to her area, she recognized us (because of the scooter) and gave us back the phone! Thank you so much for going above and beyond! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Transporting my mobility scooter - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

First, the negative ratings all are associated with the events themselves (MAGA people, NASCAR issues, lousy wines at a wine event.....). The site itself is fantastic, particularly for what is being asked to do. Noisy events in Marin county - you're SO LUCKY that it is allowed to host such an event. Otherwise, go back to your TV :-( The people who work there are courteous and competent. When you get a zillion people there, yes, there will be traffic and some lines. Everyone does the best they can with the best attitude possible. I have no idea how the bathrooms remain relatively clean, but they also have a million outhouses out in the parking lots - who does that. I love this place ...... and if you don't support it, it will just get paved out like the ones we've recently lost in LA and Sac. SO LUCKY to have this. Embrace it. read more

What an event day for us at the Sonoma Raceway! Kicking back in the lounge at watching the races was the way to go! Perfect views, comfy seats, and just the right amount of crowd to keep the energy up without feeling packed. The food trucks were on point with so many good options to choose from. And getting up close with the paddock and hot pit tour was the perfect next level experince. Definitely a race day to remember! read more

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Sonoma raceway is family friendly and an easy day trip. I wouldn't recommend arriving as early as we did because the parking wasn't bad at all with the shuttle transport. We wandered around all day watching race cars getting gas, race cars parked in the garage, a car show in the center of it all, with loads of bleacher seats with back support and shade. The schedule kept it fun for enthusiasts of all ages, from the simulation to the autographs and even an air show. We brought some drinks and snacks but there were food trucks available and some $9 matcha teas lol. The cafe also had overpriced everything and the shop was claustrophobia galore. But otherwise, super fun! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Air show - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

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Parking is horrendous, but that is to be expected at such a venue. Be prepared to wait in a very long queue. Need to get security to help if you leave your seats and other people try to steal them so have your tickets or proof of purchase at hand. Bathrooms are clean, but lines are a normally long wait so plan ahead. Bring both cash and card because each food stand will only take one or the other. $20 got us one plate of fries, but we all shared. In hindsight we should have packed sandwiches. Overall the show was great and a great way to spend the day together. read more

Sonoma Raceway - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Attended Velocity at Sonoma Raceway for the first time. The track and accessibility was fantastic. The had shuttles running back and forth from the parking lot. The staff was super helpful and the races were top notch. Fantastic venue with plenty of food, parking, shade, etc. read more

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These are some observations about the 2025 NHRA event at Sonoma Raceway. I bought tickets for the weekend. I attended the Saturday event, and I chose not to go Sunday. Why? First, I've been a drag race fan for decades and have attended events all over the country. I've met with many of the crew chiefs, drivers, and crew members. About me: Clay Millican (an outstanding Top Fuel pilot) once told me that I look like Samuel L. Jackson. He had a point. I am Black, and I wore a Kangol hat. I share that to provide context to the observations about the Saturday event. This was the first NHRA event that I've attended since the Pandemic. At that last event, a group of bigoted men sat behind me and made rude comments. One of them leaned over bringing his face close to my ear. I got up, walked away and didn't return to the Sonoma track until 2025. Yes. That happened. Years later, on Saturday at the event, it was arguably a worse environment. Men and women walked around in public wearing shirts announcing: Trump was right about everything! MAGA by Birth Make Racing Great Again Redneck engineer (with a picture of duct tape) Stomp on my flag and I stomp on your a$$ Guns and MAGA on shirts at a family fun event. I even saw a shirt with Trump driving a dragster. The place stunk with that culture war BS. When I arrived and took my seat, I said "Hi," to a couple directly behind me. It was the polite thing to do since I was walking straight toward them as I went up the stairs. The guy glared at me and replied, "Yeayup," as if he stepped out of the Eddie Murphy bar scene. NHRA racing traditionally was always distinguished from NASCAR. It seems as though it was more progressive. More of its drivers are women and minorities. The crowds were less insular and more diverse. But at this event, even the music leaned heavily toward the "genre" that I've heard at MAGA rallies, to put it diplomatically. I won't even try to understand why a grown-up, mature, adult person would wear angry political statements on their persons at a family fun event. But I will say that the venue was crowded. Just maybe the sport has been branded as a harbor for these folks. Politics and drag racing. In the Bay Area of California. Here's what I loved about the Saturday event: The racing itself. Brittany Force and the amazing David Grubnic continue to excel. Jack Beckman's interview about the Freight Train was gold. When Beckman gives up the driver seat, he belongs in the commentator seat. Ron Capps absolutely "classed the place up" in and out of his car. His dedication to the sport and fans is inspiring. I could keep naming people. I stayed almost to the last Sportsman race, and watched Richard Gadson lose to Matt Smith because of an impossibly small red light. Here's the irony: As I was walking back from the starting line, in a nearly empty venue, I kept bumping into other Black people who stayed to the end. read more

Brittany Force broke the all time NHRA Drag Racing speed world wide record today @ 344mph! read more

Sonoma Raceway - NHRA Sonoma 2025 - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Most folks know the track because of NASCAR but it's so much more. I have been to quite a few race tracks over the years. My son drift races and I follow him around. Lol The park is huge! Different tracks everywhere and all different kinds of events draw all different kinds of crowds. The shuttle bus seems to working for visitors to get around as walking would be nutty if you wanted to see different areas. And new this year no pit bikes. So instead I saw a bunch of people with scooters. I was with the pit crew so I rode around with them. So many people wait around at the skid pad to get a ride along with the drivers. I watched my son turn down so many girls (he is married and ain't messing with that,lol) but he took his Dad and some other guys. It rained most of the day so the tracks were slick. But safety is taken very seriously here and the moment there is a hazard everything stops until it is safe again. All drivers must pass inspection and the car too. Fire suits, neck braces, helmets, roll cages and all. The bathrooms- even the porta potty's are kept clean!! Food- expensive- bring your own. Definitely a fun day if you are into fast cars. read more

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I visited this raceway for the first time to attend GR Cup 4/6-4/8. I had an amazing time and didn't realize how close it is! I was lucky enough to be able to view the races from a suite, but even the higher level stands seats have a great view of the track. Everything was super accessible and easy to find, I'm glad there were a variety of food options and friendly staff on site. Toyota did a great job at organizing the event at this location, hope to attend GR Cup next year! (I also hope to do my Toyota NASA day at this track)! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

I was never into Nascar before, but my boyfriend got tickets for the Nascar weekend at the Sonoma Raceway last month. We went both Saturday and Sunday. I was excited because one of my favorite TV shows is "Impractical Jokers" and on that Sunday, Murr (James Murray) from that show was the Grand Marshal. Sonoma Raceway is HUGE! OMG! We were shocked how massive the place was. I'm guessing it's the size of 5 football stadiums. There are multiple parking lots, and they have shuttle systems to take you to the Midway. Inside the raceway they even have free mini golf cart rides to take you around to certain points since the place is so huge. If you've never been to a Nascar race, image a county fair mixed in with racing. At the Midway they have multiple food vendors, and different booths that try to get you to sign up for things in exchange for hats, keychains, free food etc. I highly recommend getting your food first before you find you seats. Unless you're seated right at the Midway, you will have to walk super far to get to the different turns. The first day we were there, our seats were at Turn 2 and OMG that was a HIKE! It felt like I was hiking up the Mayan temples lol. The second day we sat at Turn 9 which was also a lengthy walk and hike. TIPS: 1. Bring earplugs, most people bring them since it's super loud 2. Except for the Midway, the seats at the turns are just concrete with no backing so bring stadium seat support if you need it 3. You're allowed to bring in food and drinks, only soft coolers allowed. On the website it says no outside alcohol is permitted, but we confirmed with security that beer cans are allowed, and we were able to bring some in the next day. 4. Even if the temperature is nice outside, bring a wide-brimmed hat and sun protection. I got a bad sunburn on my neck and chest area. 5. Wear comfortable walking shoes! Ladies, this is not the place to wear heels, flip flops or sandals! Trust me on this! read more

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Came by for the BMW M Track Day and it was a decent experience. The track itself was in good condition when we did the lead follow with the instructor. They do have racing fuel on site. The parking lot is huge, perfect for supervised drag races and autocross! There is an attendant at the gate to sign a waiver before entering. read more

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My son and I attended the NHRA drag races at Sonoma Raceway. The experience was beyond awesome. We parked in parking lot #2, which is reserved for those with tickets to the Nitro Club and others, as well. It is the closest public parking lot, I think, but there is still a long downhill walk to the Raceway. The lots are unpaved, but well graded, and the rest of the walk is on pavement or concrete. Entry to the Nitro Club required verification of tickets and a wristband affixed. A bowl of earplugs was available like party favors. They are needed. The Nitro Club is located about 20 yards to the side and slightly behind the water box, making the burnouts pretty specatacular viewing. The 'Christmas Tree' is quite visible as is the drama of staging and launch. We were on the second of three floors, and could see all the way down the track to the finish line, uphill deceleration area and catch fences. Seated in the Nitro Club, with air conditioning and a delicious buffet and drinks, and nearby restrooms all day long is the way to do it. That said, the sounds and smells of drag racing, particularly the nitro-fed monsters, requires standing downstairs by the fence and palming your ears, which, of course, are already plugged. The open grandstands certainly offered excellent viewing of the quarter mile track. And that might be the ticket next time. Visits to the pit area are highly recommended. Just have your earplugs handy for whenever an engine is started up. There was an amazing variety of vendors for this event, and I bought a ball cap for myself and a tank top for the wife. Temptation, you know? There were also several food vendors, and quite a variety of offerings. I don't think anybody wanted cash, so be sure to have your plastic with you. This was my first NHRA event, and it will not be my last ! read more

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I love this place-first experience at Velocity Invitational and bought three tickets (1. General Admission (never checked) One parking (Section 2) with a promise of black top paved parking demoted to parking lot 3 when my ticket says pavement parking! (?) what a joke! Will not waste my money to get my car dirty-on this next time. They have shuttles but they don't start till later when you're leaving. Not cool-but the event was spectacular!! The sip and savor was not caviar, Brie with charcuterie-it was wine vendors desperately trying to rid themselves of their old vintage wines (with the exception of a few wonderful wines) . HOTaf there, so waiting for the shuttle was not an option. Waiting for a soft serve for over $10 was also not an option LOL walked two miles to my car. Too funny- no one checked my "general admission" ticket! Thanks for the entertainment! read more

The NASCAR cup visit to Sonoma is always fun. If you're into feeling and hearing the raw power of stock car acceleration, get seats in the grandstands. For a view of the track from the highest point, look into seats on turns 3-5. The best place to catch cars passing is on turns 7, 9, and the carousel. read more

Sonoma Raceway - Turn 7. - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Sonoma Raceway is a great place for a NASCAR Race!! We have been coming here for a few years now and will hopefully be returning for years to come. Food options are good, drink options as well but VERY pricey. They do allow you ti bring food and drinks in so that is helpful. This year it seemed they were also allowing people to bring alcohol in but not sure if that is always the case. Turn 7 is the best place to sit to enjoy a road course race!! read more

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Fantastic place to spend a day on the track. I was here as part of the AMG Pro Driving Academy and had the chance to drive the track in an AMG GT, what an experience! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

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Always have so much fun here on Wednesday nights! Drag n Drift is a great event for all. I particularly love watching all types of cars drift in circles with each other or by themselves. People really get into it, high diving the drivers after! Some cars even are decked out like race cars. Very cool. They even get to use the race track and pit cars against each other to see who's fastest. Motorcycles even get to race there. It's really fun seeing how fast people can go and how many different motors are out there. I spied a food truck once but I'd recommend eating beforehand or bringing your own food. They race til the very last second so come when you can! Oh and pro tip, cover up and wear glasses if you can. Burning rubber flies all over at the drifting area and you do not want that in your eyes or hair. read more

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We had a blast at the Sonoma Raceway. Parking was free for this event and they had shuttles to get you around. We went to watch the NHRA races and every seat was a good seat. We walked around and looked at all the cars and vendors. Prices are high but is such at any large event like this. The staff we encountered all were very nice. No cash accepted so make sure you bring a credit or debit card. They had people all over cleaning and keeping the location very clean. As long as you had a clear bag you could bring in pretty much anything. This event was a good reminder of how things used to be and how they should still be. I would highly recommend coming out. read more

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I saw my first race here and it blew me away how cool race weekend can be. It was so much fun! They held multiple races 3+ in one day so if you get here late you can still see the start and finish because they're 2 hours long. The food options are decent with food trucks and vendors. The race track fair is typical; hotdog, hamburger, fries, beer etc. Stadium fair and the upscale vendors priced similar. Tip: Wait in line for the more palatable meal or bring a packed lunch!! Tickets are cheap, and seats are unassigned so check out the views from different spots. read more

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Sometimes I feel incredibly fortunate and nope, I never take that for granted. My recent visit to the Sonoma Raceway only strengthened that feeling especially with the VIP treatment extended from the Don Schumacher Racing Team. I'd never been to any kind of car/racing event before and the NHRA drag races were my first. Our VIP invite allowed us to park in a VIP lot, to receive transportation to/from the track, to meet the drivers, to tour their work areas, to sit in their cars, to enjoy a catered dinner, and to watch the races from the track. The Don Schumacher Team was beyond hospitable when occupying the grounds of Sonoma Raceway. The best part of the night was when Don Schumacher personally escorted us to stand about 30' feet behind his drivers as they took off. The power of the cars, sheer volume of the engines, and the fuel burning your eyes, nose, and mouth is simply indescribable. I went in as a race skeptic and left as a race fan. Thanks DSR and Sonoma Raceway! read more

I've driven on Thunderhill, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Laguna Seca to name a few tracks, and can say that Sonoma is very much underrated. The track has a lot of different activities for car enthusiasts. They have a drag strip in the middle of the track near the main straight even for some straightaway action. The track is also pretty technical where it can be fun for anyone on 4 wheels or even 2 if you want to bring the motorbike out. The grandstands offer great views too if you're not driving. Or if you're a driver and have a spotter telling you where everyone else is on the track, the grandstands are great, wherever you may be on the track. It's a mix of novices and pros so still be careful when walking or driving around the paddock. Overall; this track has a lot to offer and I highly recommended it for pros and novices wanting to test out their car and skills on the pavement! Bring a helmet! read more

The Inaugural Sonoma Speed Festival 2019 Yelper Cindy C's hubby has raced vintage Porsche's for decades, and this weekend I finally went to an event for two days to watch him. The Sonoma Speed Festival is truly a classy experience !! The event started on Wednesday for drivers to arrive. Thursday, Friday, and Saturday for spectators to watch trials, and Sunday the finals. Throughout the event you can wander the paddocks and view the cars, watch the ten race groups from various track locations, check out historical car displays, and even buy a car. Walking around the paddocks and special exhibits I saw so MANY cars. The venue was full of awe-inspiring vehicles that spanned over a hundred years of racing history. From 1911 rag time racers in authentic attire to the Porsche 917K, Ferrari 250 GTO and Lotus 77 F1. Even 10-time Grand Prix winning Mercedes -Petronas F1 car of Lewis Hamilton, it even ran demonstration laps. An abundance of cars to see with even more history- see them up close and then watch most of them on the track. Never watched an auto race ? Here's your best opportunity to watch several different types of car. While wandering the venue you can enjoy sips from local wineries and distilleries in the Sip & Savor Pavilion. In the Food Park, Viansa Sonoma served picnic fare, Cochon Valant BBQ had a delicious slow-cooked BBQ, and the next tent created burgers and grilled chicken sandwiches. Track, cars- are you thinking dirt ? Don't. I couldn't believe how clean this massive venue was. From the paddocks to the restrooms. And so well organized- exhibits, food court, and race schedule. Sonoma Raceway is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. Check their site for the upcoming race schedule. But definitely put next year's Sonoma Speed Festival on your to do list !! read more

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Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway has been on our tracks to see a NASCAR race for awhile. Finally made it. Parking was easy, a little slow because they have to check your event ticket before parking. You have to screened before boarding the shuttle to the track. The track is in the hills of Sonoma, so lots of walking up and down. Our seats were in Tuen 2. We could see about 40% of the track including the start/finish line. Great seats and most of the action happened in front of our section. FYI except for the main grand stand all the seats are concrete with no seat back. Didn't take to long to get out of the track. Some confusion about what you could take in for beverages at security was kinda a bummer but overall a good race experience. read more

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Once year in June, Sonoma plays host to NASCAR! The raceway is well maintained and the crowd was great and respectful towards each other. If you haven't been to NASCAR, it's something you should attend once in your life! read more

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first of all, I would like to say that I have been watching NASCAR for over 50 years and although it has been losing popularity, I still occasionally watch it. I used to watch every single race and be thrilled with the thrilling racing by the top-notch drivers of the past. Even though I don't think the drivers today in anywhere near the quality that they once I have to say that true TV's coverage on Comcast was horrible. Jeff Burton and Larry McReynolds were terrible in terms of the split screen was obtrusive and obnoxious. The commercials were The running order was split screen split screen. Very seldom was there any 1080 P showing of the race. No wonder nobody wants to see or even attend a NASCAR race anymore because of the overall quality is horrible. Did you notice that the stands at were virtually empty where 20 years ago they were packed. Need I say anymore it's a crying shame that they've ruined the sport and because of that eventually I think NASCAR is gonna go belly up bankrupt and it'll resort to one entity for all stock cars. If true TV ever broadcast another race I will definitely never watch it. It should be on Fox like it was in the old days. I'm disgusted and I've said enough. read more

I know nothing about the world of car racing, but after my visit today I'm intrigued. I came out to see my buddy race his 1970 Datsun (and sing the National Anthem!) It's a fun scene. I'll be back. read more

Its current name is Sonoma Raceway. It was also called Infineon at one time. Been to several NASCAR events and now Tough Mudder. This place is easy to find. It is right along 121 and on your left if you're coming from 37. Signage all over if there's an event. They have shuttles to take you to the main place because the parking lot can be far from the venue. It is a huge place ! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

What can I say. Formerly Sears Point, the Sonoma Raceway is a premier track and closest track to San Francisco. Not a track for beginners as there are many walls if you can't make a turn. But large grand stands for fans and a modern facility. read more

Sonoma Raceway - autocross - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Can't complain. Went there for a fun Porsche event and got a taste for the track which was really great to drive on. Lots of elevation changes, lots of corners. The drag strip was pretty fun. Nice little track day read more

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Had a blast driving the track at the AMG event. The track is challenging with elevation changes, acutely and obtuse angled turns where you need to pick your apexes carefully given the next set of turns you may have to negotiate! The facilities are excellent and the paddock area was available for some skills development. If you have an opportunity to do an event here it's definitely worth it! read more

Sonoma Raceway - Look out for the wall - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Attended the SRO races at Sonoma yesterday The racing (practices) were great and the Physical venue is excellent for watching races. Big however there was one place only on the entire premises to buy food a d drinks. Crowded and expensive. Also it closed mid afternoon so there was NO PLACE TO BUY WATER (or food) We left well before the racing was over as thirst became a problem. There seems to be no management interest in the fans that attend their events. No water and no warning. Definitely a BYO should be advised when tickets are purchased. read more

So much fun. Depending on the event there is free parking and a shuttle from your car to the front gate. This really stood out as plus. Plenty of bathrooms and strategically locate around the grounds. We went to the Sonoma Speedway Festival. It was an amazing event. We drove right in and got a good parking spot, then we got a shuttle to the front gate. From there it was a sea of cars by era. The drivers were really friendly and were happy to answer any questions. There were also volunteers to give you a guided tour. We ate at the Sip and Savor tent the last two days and it was perfect. It was a great place to get lunch and to relax in the airconditioned tent. The service was impeccable. I look forward to going back next year for Father's Day with my Dad. read more

Sonoma Raceway - Ragtime racers - Race Tracks Near Me - Sonoma, California

Sears Point Raceway (Infineon Raceway, Sonoma Raceway) has been around since about 1968 and is one of the most beloved racetracks in the country. It is one of the most technically challenging tracks in the area with 12 turns through a hilly course with 160 feet of elevation changes. You can watch car (NASCAR, NHRA, Indycar) and motorcycle races, the best drivers in the world, and drive it yourself at the driving school or through Hooked on Driving (read my review on these guys - they are great), or any of the sports car clubs or other track-day outfits. I love driving this course because it is very challenging and really fun, and particularly well-suited for high-performance sports cars with great handling. Nice facilities, lots of parking and very accessible. If you need equipment, clothing, helmets, or merchandise, visit Wine Country Motorsports onsite - they are terrific. read more

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I am actually here right now. My time was at 12:10. We arrived an hour early and had our class. It is currently 215 and I'm still in line for the LEAD CAR RODE ALONG. They are very disorganized, and Unmanaged! We are still waiting in line and the other class just got out and some people went into another line and went before us! There was know direction and was a complete cluster! We bought lead car, and 3 cars, insurance and spent way over 2500 dollars! What a disappointment!!! We have been here since 1130 and still have not driven! Would not recommend!!!!! Such a cluster! read more

Great facility and wonderful staff members! My son signed up for school stage 1 on 11/18 but the weather was not cooperating. The coaching staff Jeff and the GM did their best to get the lesson started for the first 30 minutes but had to make a hard decision to reschedule due to the harsh raining and unsafe condition. My son was very disappointed but we all appreciate the raceway staff's effort of rescheduling / refund and the professional way of handling the unexpected situation. They also gave us a very nice offer to keep us happy and we understand it was the weather to blame. Another staff member Kristen also followed up with us to take care of rescheduling and resolve time conflict. We will definitely go back to Sonoma Raceway for karting and hope we will get a nice day! Thanks again for all the Sonoma Raceway karting center staff members! N. Lin read more

This was my second time at NASCAR. It is really such a cool experience! The reason I didn't give five stars is because it took forever to get in and park. Unless you buy parking you have to enter at gate seven and the line barely moves. They need to find a faster way to get people in there. Everything else about Sonoma Raceway is awesome. They have a ton of shuttles and golf carts taking people all over the venue. They have a fantastic selection of food and drinks. We also got to see Shaquille O'Neil as a DJ after the show. And it is great that they allow you to bring in food and non-alcoholic drinks. We sat in the main grandstand, which was the best time! It is so awesome seeing the pit crews in action! read more

So disappointed this year for NASCAR at Sonoma raceway. They did not open the gates off of lakeville hwy making it a lot longer to get to the races and so inconvenient. They said it was because last year someone rolled their car leaving. Yet they had the gates open to leave. We were already stuck on the other side if the track Plus, They sell and promote 22 oz alcoholic drinks, and so many vendors selling the large cans. It was really disappointing after going for many years. read more