An underrated nightclub that deserves more recognition. This club sits in the Riverwest neighborhood, but you can't tell it's there because it/ quiet from the outside. The weekends are booming. I went there with friends celebrating the bachelorette and bachelor party with the Charli XCX, Ke$ha, Chappelle Roan theme. Cover charge is cheap and so are the drinks. They offer water at the side of the bar so you don't have to wait in line to hydrate and sober up on your drive home. Decent dance floor with cool lighting. They have a separate area near the dance floor with a pool table and a Pac Man video game with a set of couches to relax in when you need a break form dancing and wanna chat with your friends. It's a great place to come for your spirit and move your body with tunes to dance to! read more

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Mad planet NEVER disappoints. Its so fun, never had a bad time. The vibe, the 80's music, the people. LOVE IT!

Experience & thoughts of the evening: Why are you pre-authorizing two different holds on two of my cards and I left the establishment only drinking 1 beverage. It does not make sense. The upscale drinking establishments I have frequented do not authorize purchases in this manner. Not a good business practice performed by this specific bartender. Took himself serious and stated "the drink will be $___" after placing two holds on both of my cards. I remember thinking "Absolutely Not" and I verbally stated to management, "I did not touch the 2nd drink so I will not be paying for it." I remember thinking who's drinks am I honestly paying for? As I left, there was a smirk on this specific bartender's face... a personal satisfaction on his behalf. Management observed my reaction to the bartender and I displayed the transactions from both financial accounts to management and the response to me was "that doesn't look right". I agree with management. Maybe it was my black fedora, metallic short shorts and plunging neckline that was "actually" the problem for this specific bartender. If so, sounds like a personal problem. I did not find this specific bartender professional, articulate not even the least bit attractive. read more

I have only been here one other time in my long life and I dont think its changed in that time. First, it is perhaps the oldest place you can dance. The ballrooms of my youth are now gone, bands are replaced by DJs, and "line of dance" is a forgotten term so Mad Planet is a fine example of what remains: lots of spaces to dance, a lounge, a bar, a very crowded coat room, and a DJ. Depending where you are, the floors are either carpeted or vinyl and you can hear the music. Ya, it can be intimidating if you are alone and I went back and forth deciding if id stay or go. In the end, I bucked up and started dancing in a remote corner but was soon welcomed by a number of people to dance. In the end, I had a great time and I hope to go again (when they 80s and 90s tunes, ideally disco). Thanks to everyone who danced with me! read more

I sometimes just scroll through Facebook events when I'm looking for something to do on a weekend and an event here caught my eye: Taylor Swift vs Lizzo vs Ariana Grande dance night. I had never been here before so I didn't know what to expect, but it was such a fun night! The cover charge for this themed Saturday night dance party was $7/person cash at the door. And when they say cash, they mean cash. There was no credit card option or option to put it on our bar tab. There was an ATM just since the entrance though and the bouncer/security were nice. We got here about 9:30 and there were a handful of people there and the music was flowing. We got some drinks and hit the dance floor and I honestly don't know where the next 4.5 hours went. We got a few more drinks, danced until we couldn't, and just had a really great time! The place filled up through the night, but it was never uncomfortably packed. We still got our drinks in reasonable time and there was still space on the dance floor. There was also a birthday in our group and our bartender brought out a Ho ho and lit a candle on it, which was so sweet of her! The only negative I will say though is that the music was great like 92% of the time, but the other 8% were kind of random even for the artists that were advertised. At one point, one of my friends joked "I think the DJ fell asleep" because of his song choice. But all in all, I would definitely come back for another dance party! read more

Mad Planet - two glasses of water and a candle on a table - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Mad Planet is definitely not like any bar I've ever been to before. We got there a little bit earlier in the night (probably around 9:30) and we definitely beat the crowd. There was a $7 cover charge, which is not something I often see in Milwaukee, since most places have no cover at all. That being said, Fridays are theme nights, so I'm not sure if they have one every day. One thing I did appreciate was the coat check, which is something every bar in Wisconsin should probably have! We started out the night by playing pool, but there were a few missing balls, so we had to adjust accordingly with no 8 ball. It wasn't too crowded, so I never had to wait too long for a drink which was nice. They were definitely pouring them strong, which can be good or bad depending on your preference. The aesthetic is very cool and different and I would definitely recommend this place for a theme night or a night out where you just want to do something a little bit different. read more

I mean. It was fine! The music was ok, but I really quite enjoyed that you could request songs. There was zero diversity when I went on a Saturday night. It was not busy. But there seemed to be a lot of teens making out. Idk they were obviously probably college kids. Not really my scene, but might be willing to try a different themed night. read more

Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ! Mad Planet is a Milwaukee institution for late night dancing, and their Friday night retro dance parties and goth leanings can't be beat. Whether it's the annual David Bowie Night (RIP Thin White Duke), or one of their nights where they pit two artists back to back against each other, I love coming here to listen to music, dance as if nobody's watchin', and drink on the cheap. I was here recently for the Cure vs. the Smiths night, and everyone was a winner! The tribute bands Substance 101 and the Salford Lads Club also did a great job making the space live music friendly, on a previous visit. There's some nooks and couches, a bar in the back, tip your bartenders as they work their butts off here. See you soon at Mad Planet! read more

Great place to go dancing. Saw a concert and wanted some place to get some inexpensive drinks and dance the night away. Mad Planet did not disappoint. Great place to bring some friends. Mixed drinks were about $9 read more

There is a cover charge but what a great place to get your grove on. We went on a weekend knowing they would have something going on. There was Dj and everyone was having a great time. Drinks weren't horribly priced either. read more

Mad Planet - a dark room with a couch and a lamp - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

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Good retro music and good vibes. If you want to dance to retro and oldies, this is the spot. The lighting and area was nice. Definitely coming back soon. read more

Truly throwback time at Mad Planet on Friday nights! Had a blast dancing to 80's classic Cure, Clash, Smith's. Even had fun dancing to 80's top 40 hits my old 80's pseudo punk teenage self would've scoffed at! Nothing fancy here, great place to dance and have a cheap beer. I digress, took me back to my Club 950 and McGreevy's days in Chicago. Can't wait to visit my sister again in Riverwest and walk on over to take me back to my prime dancing days! read more

Mad Planet - Signage - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

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Almost out of Riverwest or should I say deep into Riverwest is the Mad Planet. A bar and music venue that is so Riverwest it hurts, yet so not Riverwest it's amazing. It's a rather dark and elusive space that's 100% dive bar but it's also a cool, hip, and funky venue. I noticed this spot several times driving by and had no idea that the building actually goes deep back in and is a fairly well take care of. The Planet's patio area in back is fully fenced and the spot as a whole is littered with graffiti all kinds of local bombings, stickers, and assorted litterings. Grunge indeed! We came to see our friends band Stereo Frontier jam and enjoyed a few of the opening acts when we arrived. The acoustics were solid and the show was enjoyable in general. We found Mad Planet easy to get in and out of. The space had ample room to move around and relax. The bartenders we met are really cool and made sure the drinks were flowing. All in all, it was a good time and we also were lucky enough to meet some cool people. The place has a pool table which makes it shoot to the top of my list as YES spots automatic. Mad Planet is just a solid spot and it rocks! I'll be back! read more

Mad Planet - Stereo Frontier! Nice acoustics and cool stage area! - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Cover is reasonable and drinking prices are on par with most clubs. But if you really want to get your drink on, you gotta get there early (I'm talking like 9pm) because after 10ish, the bar is hellatious and it will take you a good 15-20 minutes to get a drink because it is packed!!! They do have a max capacity, so if you get there after 11:30p, you will be waiting in line for some time before you get inside. As long as you don't mind being "lame" and "old" getting there at 9 before all the fashionably late, cool 22 year olds get there, you'll be gold! But this place is so much fun! And of course, my favorite night is Madonna vs Gaga! It does get hot AF once the house is packed, but they do have a nice outdoor space and comfortably air conditioned bathroom to retreat to read more

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My favorite place to go to dance and hang with friends. A measly $7 cover for loads of fun and hands down best woman's bathroom experience you will EVER have. Tons of photo opportunities amounts the beautiful art they don on their walls. Some of it is for sale. Have been going here for almost 9 years now and will always think fondly of this establishment. They also have pool! read more

Mad Planet - Pre Mad Planet out fit - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

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How do I describe this place? How about taking one part dance club and mixing with two parts dive bar and add a small dash of kitsch. Friday night is retro music night with a heavy dose of 80's alternative, most of which wasn't danceable on my visit because it lacked rhythm, not me, the music. I have plenty of rhythm. It's in my blood. Anyway, Friday nights are most popular night, from what I'm told. They also have live music on some Saturdays. Drinks are reasonable and like just about anywhere else, the fun comes from the people you're with, not the place your at, unless you're at Chuck E. Cheese. You can have fun all by yourself there, but I think you have to be accompanied by a child to be allowed in, preferably one you are related to. Fewer questions get asked that way. Oh yeah, um, Mad Planet, well it's a nice way to put a twist on your standard night out. Just make sure you go with fun people. read more

I was excited to be checking out Mad Planet as a friend of mind recommended.  I heard on weekends they have different themed nights like 80s or 90s night.  Usually those themes don't interest me, but this experience was completely different. My friends and I got there right at 9.  We're lucky as the first five people got in free, otherwise it's a $5 cover. The first part is a dark and dingy dive bar where the drinks were cheap, and the service was friendly.  At first there was one bartender...she had dreads and was super friendly and talkative.  She let us choose the next movie to play as there was a TV on each side of the bar.  It was this weird collection of horror and comedy movies from the 80s and 90s.   The other part was the dance venue area and if you went further back there were couches, pool table, darts, and a pinball machine. What I liked about the dance space is that at it followed the dark and dinginess of the dive bar.  It wasn't some fancy dance club filled with overly-dressed jerk faces dancing overly loud remixed pop songs.  It felt casual with a bunch of people that couldn't dance but enjoyed themselves. The theme was 90s music and they hit every genre possible.  Some of it was weird trance music I've never heard of, and then you had some classics from Jump Around to a dancier version of 4 Non-Blonde's What's Up.  The place was packed until bar close and was tons of fun! read more

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This place is like a 3.5 for me, so we'll round up to a 4. Fridays are the night to be at Mad Planet. Being a musician, I play a lot of shows on Friday nights but when I have a gap in my schedule, I'm at Mad Planet's retro dance night. It's usually an odd group of people, over a pretty big age range, but people-watching is half the fun. Can't dance? Don't worry--I can't either and after a couple drinks, you won't really care. Speaking of, I'm cheap with my drinks. My go-to deals here are $3 PBR tallboys and $2.50 Point cans. I tend to pregame a little bit, so by the time I'm there and have had a couple drinks, I'm ready to embarrass myself on the dancefloor. Other noteworthy things about Mad Planet: -There's a coat check (and you're not going to want to carry it around with you), but I usually just leave my coat in the car. -Live music nights are fun too! Nice space and the sound guy is great. -If you smoke, they have a really nice patio out back. As a non-smoker, I still hang out back there until my lungs can't take it. -I've always had great experiences with the bartenders. -They have a pool table. -I don't come here enough. read more

Mad Planet - Airo Kwil and Klassik - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

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Been coming since 2000 to Friday night retro night. Never the oldest or weirdest person there.

I haven't reviewed Mad Planet yet? Dang! Well, let's get to it then... Mad Planet is a MKE staple. This venue has been around forever, and great bands -- both local and national -- play here regularly. I've played here before... it's really quite awesome. The decor inside hasn't changed in years... it's this strange mix of lighting and 70s kitsch and it's kind of dark and unlike any other venue in the city. Things that have changed recently? 80s dance party Friday is now RETRO dance party Friday. This give the DJs carte blanche to play things like Nine Inch Nails, which sucks. But! They still rock hits like Rock Lobster and the Grosse Pointe Blank soundtrack. This pleases me. Also! New-ish, beautiful patio for smokers and those looking to escape the dance party/show/whatever's going on. Also! They got rid of that goofy mural painted on the outside, and now the entire place has been overhauled in mustard yellow. Magnolia yellow. I love that color. The Get Down also plays on select Saturday nights, and who doesn't love 60s/70s funk and soul? Drinks are a bit pricier than at other spots in the 'hood, but being that it's a venue, it's kind of to be expected. The bathrooms could use a bit of an update, too. But ahhck, whatever. It's rock club dance party central. Does it matter? Four stars for an establishment that has been facilitating dance parties and great shows for years and hopefully, for years to come. read more

Fun little joint on the outer skirts of Milwaukee, I heard (being an out of towner) this neighborhood is where all the cool kids hang. There's a looooong bar and staff is generally attentive. There's sort of a run down feel to this place which tends to help their ambiance. Decently sized outside patio with ample seating and tables and smoking section under a well designed tarp during the winter. Large bathrooms, a lot of toilets, bathrooms are actually pretty cute. They have red lights, making the place warm hehe. Dance floor is pretty big! Music choice is pretty great too, but I just can't give it a four because although the run down feel helps its ambiance I think they could step it up. Looks a little bit like an old arcade when the lights go out! I had fun though, lotta dancing haha read more

Mad Planet - Dance Clubs Near Me - Milwaukee, Wisconsin

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Security and DJ were disrespectful and unprofessional. One of our friends ended up not feeling well and left the club to vomit because she didn't want to inside. The security then just stared and made comments like "your ruining our business" instead of asking if she is ok or needs any help. On top of that insisted that she was calling the DJ names which was not the case. The manager seemed to want to address the issue but he was also to busy behind the bar. Very disappointed that your security acted like that because it is a fun spot to go. read more

Picture it: you're sitting at home on a Friday night (probably because you are lame and have no friends). Just as you are about to burst into tears at how sad your life has become, your mind comes to your rescue-- RETRO DANCE PARTY AT MAD PLANET EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT!!! Thank you, mind. You're a life saver. My very first trip to Rad Planet was for Retro Dance Party and it remains one of the most memorable nights of my life, even with all the booze I drank. Something about dancing to all those songs I remember from when I was a kid just makes me feel so great. It's a fantastic way to release all of the past week's stress, raise your endorphins, and burn some office-chair-ass calories away! You can even bring your friend who says he "doesn't dance". We all dance here. All of us (robot voice). Aside from the Friday night dance party, this place is one the best small venues in the city. I have seen some utterly amazing shows here with nice small crowds of around 50 people. Then next year that same band is playing some place like the Riverside, which is great for them, but not as great as walking up to the performer after the show, shaking their hand, and having them personally sell you their own merch they just made in their garage before the show. When the Wisconsin smoking ban went into effect, Mad Planet went ahead and built one of the nicest heated outdoor patios I have ever seen. So, there you go, smokers! The bartenders and staff here have always been really nice, even when you stupidly bring your cocktail out on the dancefloor, and then drop it, sending glass and ice everywhere. They just come and mop up around you while you keep dancing, like no big deal (it kinda is a big deal though, so if you drop your drink, you better tip well). So, Mad Planet. Do it. Doooo iiiiit. read more

Friday retro night is pretty awesome. If you're lucky you'll hear The Cure, the Bangles, the Go-Gos, and some dancey Depeche Mode and Joy Division, all in a row. Cover and drinks are cheapish. Also: Back room is much quieter so you can almost chat. You'll look lame if you dress up (unless it's '80s-Madonna style); wear hipster casual. Downside: Sometimes they'll deem grunge or electronica as "retro," when everyone obviously wants to hear "Just Like Heaven." read more

I have only been to Mad Planet on Friday nights when they play 80s and 90s music. The place is cool, you feel like you are actually in a basement from the 80s. They do charge a cover, only about $4, but their drinks are very decently priced, and usually pretty strong. There is a good mix of people there, though some nights it can be mostly hipsters (which I do not have a problem with). Obviously the music is awesome! Who doesn't love dancing to some sweet 80s tunes? You can tell everyone is there to dance and have a good time, so feel free to make a fool of yourself on the dance floor, you won't be the only one. My one issue with this place is the service. I just do not find anyone working there to be friendly at all. Maybe by now they are sick of 80s night, but when all your guests are there to have a good time, you should at least try to be friendly. And forewarning to all you Whitney Houston fans out there, do not try to request any of her songs with the DJ, he will bite your head off! (And he will play 90s grunge instead, which is kind of a buzz kill on the dance floor) Mad Planet is a good place to go every now and then for your 80s/90s music fix, but it's not somewhere you want to go to every week. read more

I've never been a fan of paying cover to enter a club that doesn't feature live entertainment, but I'm not going to complain about that fact. Just thought it would be the first thing I mentioned as if you're not a fan of paying a cover, I could save you the disappointment at the door. The club itself it pretty nice. Look the nostalgia scattered throughout. Always love to see a pinball machine to lean on. There's a pool table if you feel so inclined. Most seem to frequent the establishment to get their dance on, which is not my scene at all. Decent music played throughout the night, which made for an enjoyable evening. In the mood to rest your sore feet after cutting a rug? There are comfy chair and couches scattered about. Did I mention Mad Planet has some of the best people watching in town? I will definitely return when opportunity arises again. read more

Used to frequent here when I was 21.......Made my return the other night (Couple years later...wink wink) for Retro Dance Party. Good mix of music and ages of people. Place looked the same. Not in a bad way, but it a good way. The "We know who we are and we ain't changing it" kinda way. Admittedly, I was a little hesitant to return as a "grown up", thought I'd feel old.... But I felt comfortable. And safe....The security people are friendly and it was an all around good time. read more

So THIS is where Milwaukee's godless liberals and general non-douchebag scene go to dance! I've been here both on Friday's for 80's night, as well as on a Saturday night with a local DJ spinning, and both times were a blast! I LOVE the mix of people here -- a range of yuppies, the grungy, the "normals" and of course, being Riverwest, a fair share of hipsters. Everyone is totally unpretentious, and there to just dance and have a fun bender -- not creep around, grind up on people and be generally douchey. Love it! The venue itself is quirky, and I guess kind of old. Let's just say this isn't where you should go if you're looking for a ritzy night out clubbing -- but it sure is if you're cool and want cheap (4 dolla calls? yes, please!) drinks, and to just dance around and have a good time with your friends who are also cool like that. This would be 5 stars if it wasn't for the insane smokiness -- but that will all be gone soon from Milwaukee! read more

I love your freaking face Mad Planet. This is hands down, my favorite place to go out dancing in Milwaukee... of course you have to go on Retro night (Fridays). Awesome people watching, great late night Happy Hour ($2 PBR Tall boys!), and all the space to dance your butt off without feeling like you're being eyed up by creepers or wannabes. read more

I love this place. Great music and dancing. I've never felt more free!!! Rock on mad planet, keep on keepin' on!

As of right now, I have to give Mad Planet only three stars because I am upset with some rule changing they did. Mad Planet was all ages back in the day. When I was in middle school, I came to shows every week, local and nationally known people would play. It was like the dive bars of music venues. Then, for God know's what reason...they stopped being all ages. The shows I went to were dry shows, alcohol never even existed. I am sure because Milwaukee has a "drinking culture" they felt the need to start selling alcohol to make the $$$. I am not 21 presently and I think it is fucked up that I was permitted inside of this place from age 12-17ish and now can't access it. It was the best place for underground shoes, now I salute my middle finger to Mad Planet. Milwaukee doesn't have any decent underground music venues for the "underage" crowd and it is messed up. I have bad kidneys...I DON'T EVEN DRINK! read more

Halloween Night. Wow, what a disappointment. There are a few elements that make for a good dance place, and particularly on Halloween night it is the people and the music. For sure, this place is hard to beat for seeing creativity in costumes. Many were created by the wearers themselves. Unique too. A police call box as a costume? Yes, it was there. Now the music. Good music equals many people dancing. Bad equals few people dancing. There were many people on the dance floor, but for an hour (until I left), nobody was really moving. The music was awful and unrecognizable. Even writing suggestions and leaving tips had no effect. I have only seen this at wedding receptions where the DJ suffers from DJ Narcissism - they love their music, but few others do. The takeaway...when walking into this place to dance, if you notice a big bald bouncer-looking white guy at the DJ booth, turn around immediately and find a place where you will actually enjoy yourself. read more

I will say. My "star rating" fluctuates between a 3 and a 4.....it all depends on the DJ. Sometimes he is spot on, and the crowd is full of fun dancing fools and everything is right in the world. Lasers, 80s/90s awesomeness...but then....trans music? Nobody knows how to dance to trans music. Buzzkill to the max. I guess that means it's time to grab a drink, go outside to cool yourself off, and rejoin the dance floor when David Bowie enters. This bar is my early twenties. And going there now, it is fun to see it's the same experience for a whole new batch of Milwaukee youths. The drinks are inexpensive, the $5 cover is worth the 80s/90s dace fantasticness, and everyone is literally there to make a fool on the dance floor. Happiness abound! Plus, where else can you go to view such astute topless alien art?! Disclaimer: You will walk out smelling like someone else's sweat. You have been warned. No go forth, and dance, my friends!! read more

Home of Jam-packed 80's night for the 300th consecutive season! This wasn't ever one of those novelty 80's places. These people are dead serious. Don't get in the way of there fun. Watch as many episodes of night court as possible before attending to get the 80's thing down. Decent bar, good place to catch a show. Take a tour of the bathroom. More mirrors that Robert Downey Jr's house. Oh, i went there. read more

The best club in Milwaukee. Not that there's a whole lot to compare it to. Drinks are reasonable, bartenders total pros. Oh, and the life-affirming retro dance party. Dive in and meet your new friends/lovers. read more

Uptown Saturday Night is where it's at! If you like to hear golden era hip hop check it out. The dope folks put together a good mix from vinyl every 1st Saturday... The bar is nice as well with plenty of room even when busy. The crowd is always good company and the bar staff are like drink ninjas that are always there when you need a refill. I don't smoke. but, they have a very nice patio also. read more

The main question I get from people about this place is, "is it safe". I think people that do not live or know the area are hesitant to come here because of the negative connotations that Riverwest seems to always have floating around it. Which I get, but let me tell you that yes this place is "safe". Now, would I walk around at night alone in the surrounding neighborhood, probably not, but I would not do that in a lot of places. If your worried about the area, just get a room downtown and take a cab out here. Have it drop you off in front, and come inside and have a really, really good time. The bar itself is big and dark, and the dance floor is the same. Bartenders are cool, and everything is super affordable. The crowd and people take this place above and beyond though, as the douche factor is very low, and the awkward idiot dancing is high. On any night you will get a mix of literally everybody (that is a good thing), and as a thirty-something married dude who cannot dance at all, but loves to do it anyway, you really cannot find a better place. If your on the fence about Mad Planet because of the neighborhood put your fears away, and go have a good time, cab it up if need be. read more

If you're in the mood to dance, go with a group of friends! In my opinion, way better than most of the clubs downtown that require a dress code. There is sometimes a cover of $5. Worth it. The dance floor is usually big enough for everyone. There is an occasional flailing dancer, so hold onto your drink! And yes, a lot of glasses usually get dropped on the dance floor, but everyone is usually having too much fun to notice. The reason for only four stars is that the location is not the safest. read more

This review is essentially years in the making. That is, I've been trying to convince my friends to head out to mad planet since I first heard about it! Well, 3 years later I finally got my wish and went to mad planet. We went for the saturday night getdown which is all soul, funk, cool stuff. Good time! We arrived around 1030, which seemed to be a bit too early. The place really started to pick up around midnight. We had a great time, but it wasn't quite the sweaty dirty mess that we were expecting and wanted! Probably because it was the Saturday before Valentine's Day. We're going back for Friday 80s night soon! $4 cover for the Getdown. read more

I feel old writing this, but I've been going to Mad Planet for half my life (almost 16 years). I spent many hours on the dance floor in high school when Saturday nights were all ages (not anymore). Now I spend occasional Friday nights dancing my heart out on retro night. I've also seen a fair number of concerts at Planet throughout the years; the best being the Ravonettes a few years back. I debated between giving Planet 3 and 4 stars and would probably give it a 3.5 star if I could... Let's start with the good... 1. Cheap cover 2. Strong drinks 3. Good size dance floor 4. "Come as you are" dress code 5. DJ takes requests 6. 80s dance hits! 7. Patrolled parking lot 8. The smoking patio is very nice in the summer Here are the minuses... 1. Now that it's retro night and not 80s night, the music selection seems to be more hit or miss. I went a few weeks ago and the music being played SUCKED. Hardly anyone was dancing and it was as if the few of us on the dance floor that really wanted to dance were struggling to despite the music being played. I went again last night and the music selection was MUCH better! 2. The place doesn't get hopping (read: people dancing) until 11:30 at the earliest. read more