A fun night of line dancing and 2-stepping Well-attended. Large parking lot. Huge wooden dance floor.

This is a wonderful, upbeat. fun place to learn to dance. Tami and Erin are extremely talented dancers and teachers. All of their classes are fun, and I'm sure you will be smiling and laughing during the class. They have tons of experience so they have helped all ages and levels improve in their dancing. read more

A few years ago I wanted to learn how to swing dance and found this organization online. The website said that you didn't need a partner so I gathered up my courage and went alone, I was 24 at the time and nervous of attending anything by myself. I took 2 sessions back to back and loved it. The instructors here are very good at breaking things down step by step, at the beginning of each lesson they review the previous week, this way you're slowly building on top of each week. As you advance, things do get harder but asking questions and seeking help in between classes is encouraged. They're very helpful and supportive, if you can't quite get a move, they'll walk you through it again or any of the advanced students can help. Everyone here is like a family always excited to bring in more people and keep this amazing and fun dance culture alive. I took my boyfriend here who had previous swing dancing experience and he was able to fine tune his moves and learn so much more, it was something we could do together every week as a hobby and make friends from all walks of life. Even though we attended together, we still rotated amongst the group. I encourage everyone to rotate amongst the group, even if you came with a partner, by rotating you experience different dance styles and it helps you to become a better leader or follower. read more

I went in last night for the Saturday event at Grace Lutheran Church on Hill avenue in Pasadena, and I had a BLAST!! They had a live band starting at 8 pm but first at 7:30~ you go in and they give you a short dance lesson showing you the steps to follow. The hall is spacious and air conditioned and all the people there were kind and graceful! The two ladies that offer the event are very friendly and helpful! Once the dancing starts everyone gets a chance to dance and it was so much fun! Come check this place out, you will have the time of your life and it's good for the heart and soul! read more

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Super fun evening! Nice crowd, and really fun band! (They have various swing bands here so it's always different). Just a super fun evening. Low cover charge. Where else can you have such a great night of fun for such a reasonable price? read more

Always a blast to attend. $20 is worth the 7:30p dance class, friendly vibe, live music. Last night, we attended their vintage night. The vendors were wonderful and many dressed up for the occasion! It felt reminiscent of the 40s or 50s. It was lovely. I gotta say all the best and most experienced dancers were the older crowd. And it's so cute to see watch them dance. I'm excited to come to their big band event next month. read more

Absolutely loved the time I spent there and the classes that I took...I gained a lifelong skill and passion

Awesome fun place! in business 40 years they have great teachers, great teaching assistants, and really nice students. Large group classes, and weekly live band Swing dances --keeping us dancers happy. read more

Best dance studio EVER!!! The two sisters are so fun and make learning to dance easy and provide such a safe and comfortable environment to do it in. The nicest people attend and the Saturday night dances with live music is always top notch and make for a very affordable night out with or without a partner. Can't say enough good about PBDA. read more

I went last night for the first time and I had the BEST time! I went by myself not knowing what to expect and that did not even matter! From the minute I got out of my car and was walking to the venue, I met two very nice ladies who were so welcoming! Everybody was so nice! I danced my feet off and it was just such a great time! I will definitely be going back! Because of an accident on the freeway, I missed the dance lesson but I will be sure to leave extra early the next time! read more

This is a welcoming community of dancers of all levels, ages and backgrounds. Erin and Tammy, the founders of PBDA are the most welcoming dance instructors I have ever met. They marry expertise with kindness and fun! Whether you're joining them for a class or their Saturday night "swing out" dance, be prepared for fun and incredible people! read more

My brother introduced me to swing and ballroom dancing eight years ago. Today it is his passion and I love to watch my brother dance. The first time he brought me to a Saturday Dance at PBDA, I felt indimidated. However, there were still folks friendly enough to take on a noob and dance with her. I guess the only way to overcome feelings of insecurity at the dances to.. be more secure and confident in dancing is to... learn and dance some more! So I signed up for my first class and LOVED it. The lessons were paced just right, the directions are clear and I was able to learn without getting fustrated. (Although occasionally some do, but I like to think it's due to personal, perfection issues rather than those attributed to their left feet.) The Saturday dances always have LIVE bands!! They are good practice venues for what this business is all about: teaching, promoting and preserving the American culture of Swing Dancing as well as other types of social (Lead and Follow) dancing: Ballroom, Salsa, Hustle, etc. Thank God for the founding sisters Erin & Tami Stevens who started this business in 1983 and helped it's cultural revival by teaching this style of dance and bringing back old time great, "Ambassador of Swing", Frankie Manning. Through PBDA, I've made many great friends, stepped on too many toes and finally feel like part of a good and lasting community. I believe one of the greatest joys in learning is the complete freedom to dance from the heart and with great joy. I suggest you browse on their website and sign-up for a class today. read more

Pasadena Ballroom Dance Association - The Swingaroos - Dance Schools Near Me - Pasadena, California

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I've been taking lessons and going to dances there since 2003. The Steven sisters have been a major reason why Swing dance thriving today. They are brilliant teachers, have well organized classes, and hold Swing dances every Saturday. I've had many dance instructors, but Erin & Tammy always will have very special place in my heart. They are personable, deeply enthusiastic, truly care about their students and hold a passion with deep knowledge for their craft. read more

I love the classes!! I thought I could never swing dance because I have no talent at dancing. Our teacher breaks the dance down to make it easy to learn. Very supportive environment and a lot of fun. I highly recommend this place read more

This review is not for the lessons, as I've never taken them from Erin & Tammy, but for the Saturday Night Swing Out Dance. It's $15 to get in-- includes a beginner lesson from 7:30-8, live band, snacks & refreshments and prizes (so keep your ticket number handy! Don't just toss it carelessly into your purse and/or pocket...) I went last Saturday and there were two different prizes: one was for two free tickets to come back to the Saturday dance and the other one being a Bill Elliott's Swing Orchestra CD. The snacks and refreshments were YUMMY. As for drinks, there's coffee, water and lemonade and first they had crackers, goldfish, etc available. I thought that's all they had to offer, but halfway into the night they brought out ANOTHER table: fresh strawberries, ice cream éclairs, sweet seedless grapes, cheese & crackers... I totally loaded up on all the fruits. It tasted so good in between dances and I loved that I didn't have to keep buying water and could have lemonade all night~ The dance floor was spacious and there are fans as well as A/C. I found that I had to go stand in front of the fans once in awhile... it got kind of warm inside. The crowd was much older compared to Lindy Groove. And I don't mean 30/40 older, but like 50+. It seemed that the older people all knew each other and preferred to just dance amongst themselves. I pretty much danced with my partner most of the night because of that! I would be willing to go and try again--only if there are no other dances going on Saturday night. read more

At the time I was dating someone and we both thought it would be a fun idea to take ballroom dance lessons. We were both wide eyed with big goofy grins on our first night. It was hilarious not the class but us bumping into each other....lol. If you want to learn how to ballroom dance or the swing, this is your place. Too bad we had to stop taking lessons after I fractured my ankle the same day I received my dance shoes in the mail. read more

Just recently took the introduction to ballroom dance class (level 1) and it was fabulous. My boyfriend and I wanted to learn to dance and this seemed like the place to do it. The instructors are fabulous, super patient with the two of us (he gets nervous, I have difficulty following) and turning us into confident dancers by the end of the 5 week session (normally 6 weeks but the 4th of July holiday fell on the 6th week so they cut it short). Every class we reviewed what we had learned before which was helpful and then learned a new fun step. The classes went over the hour mark each time, which I appreciated because I feel like the instructors cared more about making sure we had learned everything than worrying about the strict hour mark. We just recently attended a wedding and it was fabulous to dance around doing the foxtrot (even if we were the only ones dancing so formally). We laughed and it was comfortable, a huge credit to how fabulous the instructors are. Can't wait to take Level 2! read more

Fun, friendly and healthy dance environment.

I have not taken lessons from here yet, but know many people who have. In fact, for any Lindy Hop that's being done right now in So.Cal, it likely descended in some way from Pasadena Ballroom. That's what these guys mean to the world of Lindy Hop and so if you want to take lessons from those that learned from the original masters, this is where you would want to go As far as the weekly Saturday dances, this I can speak to as I was a regular frequenter of their dances for many years. It is comforting knowing that this Saturday dance is still going strong after all these years and it always feels like coming home when we get a chance to go. Live music every week so if you're not a dancer, you can sit and listen to the band and watch all the dancers. If you are a dancer, live music is a great treat. Plus free treats too! Overall, a very fun "church social" type setting where everyone is very kind whether you are a newcomer or veteran. Perfect for a fun and relaxing night out! read more

If you're interested in learning to dance (couple dance!) and you want to go out and dance socially and navigate a dance floor with confidence, PBDA is hands-down the best place to learn. Unlike every other social and ballroom dance studio, PBDA actually offers structured classes designed to teach via a skills-building format. I have taken classes at many, many different locations with many, many competent instructors, but no one teaches as effectively as Erin and Tami Stevens. I was with PBDA for more than 10 years, took every class they offered, and loved every moment of it. Every other class I have taken since my time with them has been a complete disappointment. There are many good teachers out there but none of them structure their classes in a progressive, skills-building format. They all adhere to an open-enrollment policy. So from one week to the next you never know what you'll be learning or who will be in class. In my opinion, this is designed to frustrate students enough to weed out the not-so-serious dancers and force the rest to sign up for expensive private lesson packages. I am vehemently opposed to this style of teaching. PBDA, on the other hand, has a clear structure for their classes. You learn specific skills in Level One that give you a foundation for Level Two and you don't get to move on to Level Two unless you've taken Level One. Not only that, but if the instructors feel you're not ready for Level Two, they will tell you. In addition, they have wonderful and competent assistants who are on the dance floor offering direct guidance to students with finesse and great expertise. Once class is done, you have an opportunity to practice what you learned while the instructors and assistants make themselves available if you have questions or concerns about anything that was taught. Thanks to the competence of the instructors and their intelligent class structure I learned excellent dance skills that have served me well whether dancing a Fox Trot or dancing Salsa. I feel blessed to have found them because they have given me a lifetime recreation that I treasure. read more

A great place to learn how to dance, feel safe to make mistakes, hone your dancing skills, experience live music every Saturday night, have lots of fun, & join a warm welcoming community of good people! In fact this is where Lindy Hop was resurected - Erin Stevens, a co-owner of Pasadena Ballroom Dance Association, and teacher rediscovered the famous Frankie Manning and brought him out of retirement. (Manning was a famous choreographer, and was involved in several dancing films such as a A Day at the Races (1937), Hellzapoppin' (1941)) From Wikipedia: "In 1986 Mitchell and Stevens returned to California and helped to spread Lindy Hop to the West Coast and other areas of the U.S. Thus, the swing revival began..." This place has literally changed the lives of countless people. It certainly improved our lives. But it's more than just dancing and music if that is what you want; there's a community of warm, inclusive people to welcome you. It's thumbs up for this place! read more

No Tibetan sound healing bowls here....but I swear the high energy big bands and jubilant atmosphere and swing dancing will heal you of anything less than pure Joy! read more

Pasadena Ballroom Dance Association - Phat Cat Swingers bring the beat and the swag with their wide repertoire. - Dance Schools Near Me - Pasadena, California

If you want to have fun dancing there is no better place. The Stevens family has been providing instruction and dances with live bands for over 30 years! They are credited with Swing Dance revival in California. They clearly want everyone to have fun, and they are great dance teachers who are having fun. You don't have to bring a partner because they promote a culture of dancers dancing with different partners! They also promote a culture of caring and kindness. I am bemused by the few negative comments among these reviews because I have been coming for over 10 years and I have only witnessed the most accepting behaviors from the Stevens family and most of the patrons. I thank the Stevens family and the PBDA patrons for improving my life in a big way! read more

Just finished taking Erin's Tuesday Nite Hustle Class. What a blast! The only nightclub hustle class that teaches you famous hustle moves like the Maharaja, the Ali Baba, and the man's reverse cross hold release wrap, not to mention its the only class that teaches co-dance teacher Barry's famous men's double windmill; all of these in one brisk three week session! Final class they have a fun Disco Night with colored lights and the students wear wild disco outfits. There was also this Guido guy there who looked like he stepped out of a tacky version of Saturday Night Fever complete with open shirt down to his navel and way too tight pants who was all over the women. His said his name was Juan Pablo; and said he used to teach Liza Minnelli and Liz Taylor dance moves at Studio 54. With this kind of live entertainment in a dance school why stay home and watch boring cable? read more

I'm currently in my 2nd round of Level 1 Lindy Hop and am loving it! The instruction is broken down into really easy segments with plenty of practice time in between. A lot can be learned in an hour even if you are among the 'uncoordinated' section of the population like I am :) It's great that you don't need to have a partner for these classes because they match you up and you rotate so you meet a lot of people as well as not feel so bad if you accidentally smack someone in the ribcage (like I have) because you're getting smacked back! The teachers are knowledgeable and experienced and I dig when they throw in some history of swing dancing tidbits during the class. For 5 classes that are 1 hour each, it's only $65 which is SO REASONABLY PRICED!!! You can even stay for the class following yours at no additional cost. Parking is easy, the multipurpose room where the classes are held are air conditioned (which helps on hot days), and the bathrooms are clean and orderly. They provide water in coolers and cups if you're thirsty. I highly recommend PBDA for classes, they are not pretentious there and are willing to work with you and help you out. read more

It's a lot of fun. You don't need a partner. They don't make you feel dumb if you don't. They go slow. It is casual. The price is reasonable. I made my hubby go and he actually has a good time! (FYI go to Happy Hour later in the evening....just saying.) Be brave, You will be glad that you did. All ages. read more

If you're looking for an inclusive and safe place to dance, this is not the place. I went to the dance last night and the lesson before the dance. During the lesson, the instructor approached me and my partner because we were two women dancing together, to inform us that there were in fact men for us to dance with, which was super weird and uncomfortable. Later at the dance, a man grabbed me without my consent and there was no clear way to report inappropriate behavior. During the "Ladies' choice", an announcement was made that "men can't say no," so consent is clearly not a priority here. read more

I went in and checked out this place and I am so happy I did. Everyone was very welcoming and well mannered. The vibe was great and everyone was there to learn and have a wonderful time. I learned the basic steps to East Coast Swing and I'll definitely return to learn more. I love that when I went (a Saturday night), the entrance fee came with the lesson and live band performance, and great songs to dance with. What a fun place! Definitely going back! read more

I signed up for a Lindy Hop class series on Saturday mornings. I've only attended one class so far, and will amend this review as the class progresses. The classes are held in a hall attached to a Lutheran Church. It's a great hall, with a fantastic floor for dancing. They also have swing dances with live music every Saturday Night. Once I get good enough, I'll definitely have to check that out. I have taken some swing dance classes previously- but that was a couple of years ago, and were classes in smooth or 'hollywood' swing and Balboa. This class is the classic 'Savoy' style and is done in an 8 count. I felt the class was very good. Clear instruction, with well broken down steps. It moved at a good pace, but no one got left behind. Also, even though learning the basic step was very easy for me (closer to remembering than learning for the very first time) I was given pointers that really helped, getting me to concentrate on my 'follow'. I can't wait to go back for the next class! read more

If you wanna learn how to swing dance in a supportive environment, this is the place. Came here and got the lesson package, which saves you money if you come regularly. The instructors are so nice. read more

My husband and I love going to Pasadena Ballroom Dance for private and group lessons. Erin and Tami the owners are fantastic. Thank you for making our life better!!!!! read more

I started taking East Coast Swing lessons here in January 1998 and I have been coming here off and on ever since for various other styles of swing. I have taken a few lessons here and there from other instructors and these guys are by far the best and most authentic. First of all they style their swing on dance legend and inventor of the air step, Frankie Manning. I had the honor of actually taking a lindy hop lesson at PBDA from Frankie many years ago and he started the class teaching us the electric slide just for fun. He said he learned it from his granddaughter and he thought it was fun. :-P They would hold workshops with Frankie and give informative talks about dance history. Since his passing I'm not sure what they're going to replace these workshops with but his influence I'm sure will remain in their dance lessons. Second, these guys teach style, not just substance. Lots of places can teach you steps but not every place can teach you how to do it with pizzazz on a real dance floor. Erin and Tammy will show you the right and wrong way to dance to give it the right "look" and they will give you the head's up about what happens in a real swing dance club. Every swing dancer knows each style of swing has its own flavor and PBDA takes special care to show their clients how to dance each with the right style for the dance. Not only that but they will demonstrate sloppy dancing and contrast it with good dancing so clients can trouble shoot their own mistakes and become better dancers. They also teach style steps and every now and again they will do a special dips and tricks class that focus only on styling. You don't ever need a partner for lessons except for the aerials class of course. They will also do their best to come down to the floor to work with clients that are struggling a bit. Some of the patrons that frequent PBDA are kind of douchy and it sucks to get stuck dancing with them but you can't fault PBDA for that. The up side is if you do get stuck dancing with them it will only be for a few minutes until you rotate on to the next partner. Sometimes Erin and Tammy will throw in dancing etiquette into their lessons when they're talking about what happen in the "real world" outside their doors but IMHO they should do that more often because it might tame the small handful of asshats in the mix. Personally I think Erin is much more on top of disciplining the jerks than Tammy but that's just my opinion. The Saturday night dance/ lesson I have mixed feelings about. They say you don't need a partner and it's a great place to practice but when I was a young, single lady I did not experience this to be true. Most of the men were older than my parents and seemed only to be interested in dancing with ladies that were really good because they had little patience for my novice feet and wouldn't give me the time of day. It was almost like they were too smarmy to try The Derby or Joes so they would just go there and prey on widows/divorcees and disguise it as dancing. The only time I was actually able to dance was when the instructors would ask me. The raffles and special dances like the Shim Sham were fun but other than that it was a total waste of time if you were a novice lady wanting to practice. Years later when I was a much better dancer I went by myself a few times when the hubby worked on Sat night and the experience wasn't much better. Once the men found out I was married and definitely not interested in anything other than dancing they quickly vanished. It was worse and far more depressing than the bar scene. It's not really PDBA's fault that their clientele are retarded at times but maybe they could be a bit more aggressive about ensuring a more hospitable atmosphere for young ladies. Maybe bring in some extra younger men/leads for ladies to dance with or something. Going to the dances with a partner is a much better experience for sure. The gym is huge so there is plenty of room to dance and the bands they get are pretty good, professional musicians. The $15 cover is well worth the quality of the music not to mention they have free lemonade, cookies, and a raffle. I HIGHLY recommend PBDA for dance lessons. They get 5+ stars for their dance lessons. For any style of swing you can't go wrong and you will learn the real and most authentic stylinng for that particular version of swing. Erin and Tammy do their research and they will often pair up with people that are the top professionals in the field when they go outside their realm of expertise. The dances on the other hand should be approached with caution. The dances get 2.5 stars tops. If you have a partner it's great but be forewarned if you go solo. read more

Erin Stevens, where did we go wrong? I read other reviews that she can be impatient and rude with students, accuse others for faults and favors her clique which I can all certainly attest to. My partner and I have been loyal to PBDA for nearly three years and when we had first started attending her classes, she encouraged us to rotate dance partners during class, which we did. Recently, halfway through a class, Erin paused the class to take myself and my partner out of the group of rotating students and placed us in the back corner of the room. Prior to this interruption, I was doing fine and following along with the class and my partner was doing alright with some assistance. She told us not to rotate and to practice amongst ourselves instead. My partner and I were waiting for about 15 minutes for her or the other dance instructor to assist us with the steps but nobody came to offer help. There was no eye contact or gesture from either dance instructor indicating that they will help us when available or that they haven't forgotten about us. We were simply ignored and excluded from the class. I was appalled by her unedifying actions. This was especially ironic since earlier that day she was telling the class how the swing community is very nice and welcoming. Well, based on what she had just done, she obviously does not practice these standards. She does not promote a positive learning environment and if she has anything against you, she'll act on it and make you feel unworthy of her classes even though you paid to attend. We have felt hostility from her during classes leading up to this one day, but have always put it behind us. I have been bringing dear friends and family to these classes, but this experience was a game-changer. I was also working on helping an organization plan a team building event for 46 people at PBDA, but forget it. Erin, if you want to help your business, you should be careful with how you treat people. I would like to add though, that PBDA is a partnership between two sisters and the other sister, Tami, is very sweet and seems to be the complete opposite of Erin. I have not had a bad experience with Tami, but she unfortunately doesn't teach the class I was attending. A second point is that most of the students I've met in the PBDA classes are very kind people. It's too bad it had to end like this; good thing there are other local dance classes nearby with genuine dance instructors. I firmly believe in the goodness of humanity and that the world is filled with very generous and kind people, but once in a while you'll encounter an 'Erin'. That's just the way it is. read more

Dance lessons are great. Erin and tammy know how to teach. However saturday night dances are a waste of time unless you go with a partner. crowd is old I'm 46 and saying that and most of the men seem to be only interested in the good dancers or on the prowl. It made a singles bar look like a haven. Bottom line for lessons yes. For saturday night dances dont waste your time unless you like a cliquish senior citizen scene read more

It just keeps getting better! The fun and comradely at PBDA is addicting! FUN fun and oh yes fun! The sisters(Erin and Tami) never lose their enthusiasm. 30 years of dedication to making the world "dance friendly". Doesn't matter if you have a partner of not...in no time,you can 'swing' around the dance floor. Lessons are down to earth and exciting to do. Live music, abundant snacks mid dance, amazingly generous door prizes EVERY week (return dance ticket, Starbucks cards and a dinner) and always fun decorations! This place is great! read more

This Micky Mouse event is for a much older crowd these days. After they have moved several times, I use to enjoy attending dances here. Last week one of the sisters was completely rude and showed no true concern that our group had been driving over an hour from OC trying to find their location. Their antiquated map and website offered no real help. She was wanting to blame my phone service, ATT on our very frustrating situation. So the conversation went to I should change to Verizon, omg. In the South, where I'm from, we would call you rude and no concern for folks that are paying 15 bucks for an 60+ crowd. It would help if they mentioned they are located near Pasadena Community College. I am very familiar with the area but it seems others have had my same encounter. Oh and new snacks might be a good idea, same old thing for 10 years. read more

73 N. Hill in Pasadena Grace Church is the new location for all classes and dances. They have a ballroom dance set for 4-16-10 for those who want to waltz, foxtrot, salsa and rumba. They still have swing dances on Saturdays at this location with lessons at 7:30 and dances to live bands at 8. More formal swing lessons are still available. read more

I recently went here for the first time. I love the fact that there is a live band every Saturday. The cost is $15 and it includes a free lesson before the dancing. The area for dancing is big so there is plenty of space. Everyone was really nice and I had a great time. There was a also a raffle with door prizes, but I don't know if that is an every week thing or not. I'll definitely be back to get my lindy hop on! read more

I took from here a few years back. There are a few good things and bad things as always for everything. I think the location is good and convenient. The instruction is ok but the classes can be extremely large. As a result, if you get put in the back, it's really hard to see what's going on all the way up on the stage. In terms of the ticket prices, I wish they would just do a punch card format. Unless it's changed since I was there a few years back, you sign up for a full month's worth of lessons. If you miss a week, you have to come on the other repeated class or you're out of luck. This is probably the one thing I really didn't like the most since most people are busy and don't have time to be in a class every single week. So it comes to a point where you may miss two weeks so now you have to make a decision about buying the month and eating the rest of the lessons or you just try to cram it into your schedule again. The classes are about 1 hour. which is fine. In terms of instructors, I still believe the Lets Dance LA does a way better job of teaching. However, their strength is more of Salsa and West Coast swing. I really like Swing music so it's not easy to take classes at Lets Dance LA for other non-west coast swing classes. Let's Dance LA has longer classes at 90 minutes per class but like I mentioned earlier, their selection is somewhat more limited by what they teach. All in all, I think this is probably a good place to learn if you really like Swing but I wish there was a better place that offered better value. read more

10/26/2013 Halloween Dance classes = 5 stars dances = 3 stars I've been taking classes with PBDA for 5+ years now and I've never written a review...here goes! Two sisters - Erin & Tami - have run this dance school for more than 30 yrs and were instrumental in the resurgence of swing dance. They've literally written the book on swing dance and it's a good read. CLASSES: I'm partial to Erin, but both sisters are fabulous teachers; very patient and aware of if the class "gets it." I rank the classes @ 5 stars. I've been to other lessons and no one is quite as good as these ladies. DANCES: As for the dances each Saturday night, here's the breakdown: Yay: *Live bands, juice/snacks, friendly/safe environment - all for $15. Nay: *Exceedingly old population. Great if you're 55+, not so great if you're not. There used to be a great mix of ages, but this has changed. Younger dancers have migrated to Lindy Groove, which is a shame on several levels. I rate the dances @ 3 stars. There is a fine line between tradition and tired; respectfully, the sisters might want to retool the dances to attract a more age-diverse group. The Take-away: GO to class and dance with these ladies! So knowledgable, so friendly, so GOOD. read more