This place is amazing it's been transformative for my teenage son and our family. We have seen several therapist to help our son and our family and nothing beats the therapists at this program. They truly understand teen boys and the social/emotional struggles our boys encounter in this electronic day and age. read more

Did wonders for Nick Reiner, yeah? When you take children with every type of challenge and throw them all together into one kind of "therapeutic setting" but are really just taking them out to survival camp in the desert, HOW DOES THIS HELP KIDS? It's an adult's idea of escaping from society to get their sh*t straight, but kids are not adults. Some of them only 12! Some only just play too many video games. And they're grouped with older kids, more dangerous kids- all babysat in the middle of nowhere, by minimum wage outdoor enthusiasts posing as counselors. Sham. Run. You're better off burning your piles of cash. It'll have about the same effect. read more

Second nature wilderness is nothing more than a program that profits off of vulnerable teens and their desperate parents. For the astronomical fees you pay you get nothing in return. Therapy once weekly, terrible nutrition, your child is in the middle of nowhere with no quick access to emergency services, one call home weekly. So much went on there and parents will never know what really goes on. Our child was exposed to the worst of the worst there and it made his struggles worse. Do not send your child to second nature wilderness. read more

I'm 35, I was sent to this program when I was 13 years old. You made me wear an 80lb pack (this was verified in the airport when I weighed it to go to a boarding school in Montana after). I have scoliosis now, and mental trauma I can't even explain to my husband or friends. DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILD HERE. My mom has regrets sending my me here after hearing my stories... you brain wash and abuse kids. This program took away parts of my childhood I cannot get back now. Put your kids in therapy and give them meds, you're better off than this garbage. read more

It looks like they deleted their old public listing on google to hide from former "students" and their families. I was there in the mid '00s. Students are frequently punished with public humiliation, social isolation for days at a time (you are forbidden from speaking or non verbally communicating to other students your first few days or week there), and often denial of food or access to heating (so you are forced to live off dehydrated rice and beans soaked in cold water). These places are a godsend to emotionally damaged, neglectful, or abusive parents. They'll take any kid as long as the money spends. In particular, the TTI is popular option for parents with money to "unadopt" children. They also offer conversion therapy on the down low for abusive parents with LGBTQ kids. Unscilenced recorded phone calls with NATSAP programs while posing as parents. Parents fall for these programs because they will happily help you further abuse and scapegoat your kid if you have the cash. I don't know how to put this any other way but the "standard" intake procedure when I was there involved a forcible strip search and cavity search (spread your cheeks and cough and squat) as if I was a maximum security felon. This happened twice to me. I was lied to and told I was going on an "outward bound" type trip for a couple weeks. After 3 months in the Utah winter, 2N sent to a now closed "boarding school" owned by the same parent company. I left there two years later with zero high school credit despite them lying repeatedly that my "classes" counted as high school and was left extremely behind. i was confined in a facility owned by these people with no access to a serious or accredited education, and set back years in my school and career- much less the shame of having to explain to college admissions or even friends as a teenager and young adult. Communication is strictly monitored and controlled. Parents and family are coached ahead of time to dismiss allegations of abuse and report these "manipulations" to the "therapist." I've attached screenshots on their google page from a leaked parent handbook from Solstace East, another NATSAP/Aspen group school, that has shared many staff over the years with 2N. It's almost certain the 2N parents handbook is quite similar. read more

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Due to my previous reviews being removed multiple times, I am sharing my experience here. I attended Second Nature Wilderness when I was 17 years old. I am now 24 and continue to live with complex PTSD as a result of my time there and the subsequent program that Second Nature strongly urged my parents to send me to -- a program that was later shut down for child abuse. Second Nature deeply damaged my life in ways that I am still recovering from. The environment taught me that survival depended on complete compliance and conformity. I quickly learned that to "progress" through their phases, you had to act and speak exactly as they wanted, regardless of how you truly felt. By the time I completed the program, I had lost my confidence, my sense of safety, and my ability to trust myself or others. From the moment I arrived, the experience was dehumanizing. I was forcibly taken from my room in the middle of the night by strangers and brought to the wilderness. Despite being a minor and a survivor of sexual assault, I was required to strip naked, squat, and cough in front of staff members, some only a few years older than me. I was then made to sleep between staff members -- sometimes one male and one female -- and could not use the restroom without someone watching me. None of this reflected trauma-informed or sexual-assault-informed care. Once in the program, basic needs were routinely neglected or mishandled. Winter clothing was withheld until long after temperatures had dropped, leaving many of us cold and unsafe during long hikes. Despite hiking miles every day and performing constant physical labor, food portions were strictly limited, often leaving participants hungry and fatigued. In addition, restraint techniques were used that caused physical pain, justified as part of maintaining order, but in reality, they were traumatic and unnecessary. The program's psychological approach relied heavily on humiliation and forced vulnerability. Within days of arriving, I was required to write and read a "Life Story" aloud to the entire group, detailing deeply personal events and traumas. Later, participants were instructed to write "Letters of Accountability," in which we were expected to publicly confess everything we had done wrong in our lives while our families sent letters expressing how we had "hurt them." While accountability is important in true therapy, these exercises were conducted in ways that shamed rather than healed, with emotional distress often used to "break" participants into submission. Hiking long distances each day, coupled with emotional isolation and limited food, was not therapeutic -- it was a system designed to exhaust and control. While parents may believe these programs teach discipline or self-awareness, what they actually create is temporary compliance through fear and exhaustion. True behavioral change cannot come from coercion or degradation. I now work with trauma-informed therapists who have been shocked by what I endured. It has taken years to even begin rebuilding trust and safety. I share this not out of anger, but so that parents can make informed decisions. There are legitimate therapeutic options that support healing -- Second Nature Wilderness Therapy is not one of them. I would also like to add that I have requested my own medical and psychotherapy records on multiple occasions with no response. read more

If you are a parent seeking help for your child, please read all of what I have written so you can hear firsthand from a child that went here. I was sent here when I was 16. Second nature doesn't save anyone. It breaks kids down and strips them of their identity. They claim that they are a mental health program, but this is far from the truth. The way they bring you there is traumatizing. I woke up at 3am to a man and a woman in my room telling me to come with them and that my parents signed off on it. They told me "we can do this the easy way or the hard way" and said that if I dont go willingly, they would restrain me. They drove me to the airport, brought me to headquarters, gave me my backpack, then drove hours into the woods and dropped me off. Staff told me to sit away from the group and that I wasnt allowed to talk to anyone for a week. Everyone had to do this. I was in the middle of no where, couldn't talk to any other kids, and I'd get yelled at if I asked an unnecessary question. I was given a number, every kid had a number. Every kid had grey clothes. It felt like they were stripping me of my identity. Everyday we changed camp sites, packed everything up and hiked 6-10 miles to a new campsite. Before every hike they weighed us and our bag so we could carry as much weight without it being considered child abuse. For me, the most I could legally carry was 67 pounds. They rarely gave us enough food to sustain us for those hikes. They didn't even give us utensils, we had to eat with a stick. For the first month, they make you sleep in whats called a "bivvy". It basically looks like a mesh body bag with absolutely no room to move around. They put a padlock on the zipper. Anytime I had to use the bathroom at night, staff would always get mad, saying I was just doing it to be annoying. During the day it would get unbearably hot and at night freezing cold. A few times it snowed and hailed and we weren't given anything extra to keep us warm. One time, when I no longer had to sleep in the bivvy, I accidentally rolled in my sleep bag out from under my tarp. It was pouring rain and I woke up drenched in water. I woke up a staff member because my sleeping bag was soaking wet and I was so cold. They just gave me a trash bag and told me to put that in my sleeping bag and go back to sleep still soaking wet. I didn't fit in the trash bag, even when curled up in a ball. Whenever it lightnings at night, they wake us up and we have to sit crouched on our mat for hours and still wake us up at the crack of dawn to hike again. During weekly reflections they tell you to be honest. One time I said how much I wanted to go home and I was crying and said how being at that place made me not want to be alive. That night was one of the worst nights. The staff had me lie down, they put a tarp over me from my feet up to my neck, and 2 staff slept on top of the tarp on either side of me. I couldn't move at all, my arms were pinned to my sides and I couldn't turn my head. I have a big fear of being restrained and having to stay like this for the entire time night was torture for me. I didn't fall asleep, I was mid panic attack for the entire night. And of course, I had to hike again the next day. Since the staff members were just random people who didn't have any actual therapy experience, and I was one of the eldest there, I was often taking care of the younger kids. There was a girl there who was extremely unwell and needed to be in a proper mental health facility with proper care. One time, she got everyone's attention, pulled out a shard of glass she found and cut her wrist in front of all the kids. She had done similar things to this in front of everyone before, so when I saw here pull something sharp out of her pocket, I knew what she was going to do. No one was close enough to stop her and the staff weren't paying attention, so when she pulled out that glass I yelled for the staff, turned the other kids away as fast as I could and tried to shield them. not everyone was in the same place, so unfortunately a few other kids saw the disturbing scene, including a 13 year old. We also rarely did any therapy. I met with my therapist once a week, so out of my 3 month stay, I barely did any therapy. If we did something that a staff deemed worthy enough for punishment, we had to spend 24 hours completely silent away from the group and if we asked a staff member anything, we got yelled at. I also fainted on three separate occasions during my stay and not once was I brought to see a doctor and was always forced to keep hiking. I left this program way worse than when I came in. I was a shell of who I was. I was like a blank page with nothing behind my eyes. I was just another number. I am 21 years old now and still have such trauma from it. If you are a parent seeking help for your child, do not send them here or to any other wilderness program. There are way better options. Below are photos to prove I was actually at second nature. read more

Second Nature Family Therapy - Me at second nature. - Educational Services Near Me - Duchesne, Utah

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Where to begin? Devan and the entire team at Second Nature saved my 16 year old son's life. He was in a rageful, self-destructive pattern for many years. He has been in therapy since he was 6 years old for various forms of behavior trouble. We had periods of time where he started to show improvement but something seemingly mild would send him into a down-spiral. As he got older, the spirals became more dangerous. Our family was torn apart. Devan and the team at Second Nature understood our situation and, more importantly, my son. They were so experienced with his types of behavior, and they were able to get him to open up in a way that I couldn't. His time in Utah was the safest I've ever felt he's been. The program is intense, and that is exactly what he needed. Removal of the triggers and situations that brought him so much pain was the only way for him to learn to identify his feelings and express them in way that didn't harm himself or others. As a parent, I felt so much support. There were weekly parent support meetings with others that made me feel less alone. I had on-on-one sessions with a parent coach, weekly calls with my son's therapist and my son, weekly photos of the therapeutic group, and weekly letters between me and my son. My greatest takeaway was the communication channels that opened between me and him, and the understanding of breakdowns in our relationship that led us down this path. I have grown as much as him, without ever feeling judged. Although he was resistant to going, and anxious to return home, he has acknowledged how much his time at Second Nature has benefited him and given him the help he needed. He has since started school again in a supportive environment and is thriving. read more

This was the best decision we made. Everyone on the staff was helpful and caring. From the counselors on trail, to our therapist David Pagels, and all the support staff we were in great hands. As a father I learned invaluable lessons. Our son is on the right path now! read more

Legalized abuse and torture. My parents paid 40,000 dollars for me to have wilderness therapy. What they didn't know is the therapist sees you once a week for an hour. The rest of the time your trekking across the Utah desert with minimal staff generally fresh out of college, or desperate themselves to make ends meet...getting paid very poorly. All the while trying to navigate the social dynamics of 12 juveniles pissed at life and looking to take it out on anyone deemed weak. More of a Lord of the flies situation than a safe therapeutic environment. State prison later in my life was a breeze compared to this wilderness therapy. Rather than helping me it broke me, left me distrustful of anyone claiming to help, and drove a wedge in my parents and I relationship. If you are considering paying people to kidnapp your child in the middle of the night to one of these programs....just know your weak willed and blatantly wrong. Your being manipulated and letting fear win. Love is the answer to living a better life. read more

child. abuse. Not therapy. was there for two months. child. abuse. Not therapy. was there for two months.

Let me preface my review by saying that I'm sure many people have had good experiences with Second Nature. However, my daughter was kicked out for being defiant within 24-hours of arriving, and they still charged me $6,200...not to mention the $5K we spent on flights, hotels, and car rentals. I'll be the first to admit, my daughter is extremely defiant. She can also be violent and aggressive, and for those reasons we had a very hard time finding a wilderness program that would accept her. I was surprised--and also excited--to receive an acceptance from Second Nature. I submitted the lengthy application (it took me 2-hours to complete) at 12:43pm and received the acceptance at 1:18pm. In hindsight, there's really no way they could have read through the whole application in less than 40-minutes. We were told that my daughter could not get herself kicked out of Second Nature unless she put a staff member or another student in the hospital. We flew to Utah from Boston, dropped her off, and within 15-minutes were getting texts from Second Nature staff that my daughter was refusing her physical. They almost immediately suggested she go to the Vivid Treatment "safe house"...at a rate of $1,500/day. Ultimately, my daughter did go through with the physical, but later, at the base, she refused to change into her gear and head into the field. They basically said she needed to go to the safe house--we had no choice. I'm not saying there is a financial "I'll-scratch-your-back-if-you-scratch-mine" agreement between these two organizations, but...well...you be the judge. I had emptied my investment account and life savings to afford the $65K price tag that Second Nature charges. I did not have the money for a safe house. Furthermore, the safe house is a cushy, clean, bright, modern home--my daughter would have stayed there for months! She never would have decided to leave and head into the wilderness. Why would she? I asked if there was a "less cushy" alternative to the safe house. They suggested the emergency room, since, at this point, my daughter was screaming that she was going to kill herself while slamming cabinets and punching walls. I felt the emergency room was a more appropriate place for her to go...but then Second Nature decided it was better to just keep her there until we could go back and pick her up. I'm sure their daily rate of $685 had nothing to do with this recommendation. Insert eye roll here... I was under the impression that Second Nature was designed for defiant children. I was so confused about why they weren't just forcing her to get into her gear and get into the field. Then, I wondered if I downplayed my daughter's defiance in the application, so I went back through to re-read what I had written. See below for a few passages from my application, verbatim, that should have indicated that my daughter was more than they could handle. "Her defiance at home was getting out of control: she refused to listen to even the most reasonable rules, and I found myself in a power struggle with my pre-teen child. At times, she even got physically aggressive with me--she never put her hands on me, but she would puff her chest out and "posture" to me, or even shoulder check me while walking past her in the kitchen." "She basically ran away, threatened suicide, or otherwise was defiant beyond belief until she got herself admitted to the hospital... She stayed in the hospital in a cot in the hallway for 5 days before finally agreeing to come home with me. Within hours of leaving the hospital, we had to call the police back to the house due to her self-harming (repeatedly hitting herself with the corner of a picture frame--I think she was trying to create a bruised that she could blame on me or her father) and making threats of suicide and arson." At the least, they should have told me that children like my daughter tend to require a safe house admission, at which point we could have said, absolutely not--we don't have the budget. They invoiced me for 4-days (she was there from Friday at noon until Sunday at maybe 2pm), $3,200 of the $4,900 enrollment fee (that's 65% of the enrollment fee for 3% of the 90-day program), and $100 for property damage (which is totally justified). I've attached the invoice here. What really gets me is that now I don't have enough money for a different program for my daughter. If Second Nature actually cared about children and weren't just looking to make fast money, they would have at least charged me a fair amount and not gouged me. Steer clear of this program. They prey on desperate families, and just want your money. Maybe they also care about the children, too...but they seemed pretty darn greedy to me. Accepting a defiant child without taking the time to ask questions about their behavior is unacceptable. Had we known that defiance was an issue we wouldn't have sent our daughter in the first place. Now we're almost $12K in the hole, with no support or help. read more

My family will always be grateful to everyone at Second Nature who supported my son and our family through a very difficult time. My 16 year old son learned so much about himself during his time in wilderness. He came into contact with so many staff members who inspired and challenged him, especially his primary therapist. We were very nervous to send our son to another state for treatment. From my first interaction to my last, everyone at Second Nature was caring, compassionate and supportive. Thank you!!! read more

Second Nature saved my life. I went in 2021 and I'm not sure what people are referring to when they say it is abusive... I never witnessed any staff do anything remotely physically or verbally concerning at all. In fact, I didn't know about wilderness therapy before going and the thought or idea that someone could be abused at a place like that didn't even cross my mind until I got out and went on social media. And don't think for a second that I am just some miracle case who went into wilderness super peachy keen to be there-- I cried my way through my first week and wrote my parents countless letters detailing my anger and feelings of rejection. I was incredibly angry at everyone for a good portion of my stay, but somewhere along the way, I had a sort of epiphany that I've heard a lot of kids who've been through wilderness have. (whom I met in my therapeutic boarding school afterward) The epiphany was a realization that despite feeling like I had no control over my situation or physical state, I was actually in complete control. I learned that everything I had done up until that moment didn't define who I was and in that moment I was ready to take accountability for the fact that the only reasons I was there were my actions and my decisions that led me there. I realized I could change. It makes me sad to hear how many of these potentially life-saving programs have been shut down-- largely in part due to the media criticism. Before going to 2N I had reached a breaking point. I was 15 and chasing risks I didn't fully understand. I hurt myself in ways that, at the time, felt like gaining control. In reality, I was unraveling and so was my relationship with my family. Don't listen to all you hear on social media. Only one side of the story is being told because the media is much more likely to cover sensationalized stories of kids who are angry about being forced to do hard things. There is a quieter, but not-so-insubstantial population that came out of wilderness changed for the better but people don't focus on that. That side doesn't get told over and over and I speculate that it is because wilderness success stories aren't as dramatic or easily eye-catching as the narrative of "I was abused." Abuse is never okay, but I think people need to stop and think about the actual meaning of that word because being forced to choose to do hard things if you want to get better and calling it abuse takes credibility away from actual stories of harm. Maybe it's just that society is so averse to discomfort but sleeping outside and hiking is not abuse in any shape or form. Period. And like fun fact: that's closer to how people used to live before we had modern-day technology. It is precisely the discomfort that allows kids to move past their avoidant tactics. They learn to exist in a state that is way outside their realm of comfort so that when they go back into the real world they don't use their various forms of escapism and unhealthy coping skills to get them through their lives. My therapist, Coady Scheuler, along with the staff and the rest of my group helped me become someone who cares about life in a way I didn't know was possible. If you are open to change and accept that it will be hard, (emotionally and physically) you will find that you are given a place-- free of outside consequences-- to make mistakes. You will find that you are being given an opportunity to learn how to be a different version of yourself, a stronger, more resilient, emotionally open version of yourself. It is scary and overwhelming; it is hard as hell but it can be the most beautiful experience you will ever have if you let it. read more

My parents sent me here when I was 16. I have never been so traumatized in my life. I have a ton of PSTD from this place. I'm now 22 and still haven't healed physically or mentally. When I was there I complained and advocated that my left hip hurt from all the hiking and I was neglected. I now have to get a major surgery to fix this issue with a 6 month recovery time all because they wouldn't listen to me. I hated this place and still do to this day. A bit of advice for parents looking at this place, don't do it! If your child has issues with mental health, listen to them and there needs, try talking to them before sending them to a hell hole. 100% coercion and left me with more mental issues then before I was there. read more

This program changed our and our son's lives for the better. Being in the wilderness helped our son to "reset" away from video games, the internet, and even us, and to begin the journey to better mental health. It was the hardest, best thing we ever did for him. The staff was wonderful- our son still talks about them over a year later and how much he enjoyed his time at Second Nature. The therapist we worked with, Steve, was amazing and really turned our son's life perspective around. He went from depression and no sense of worth to looking forward to the future and believing in himself. Our son learned he could do hard things, and he developed a love for nature and the outdoors that continues today. Second Nature's parent programs also helped us as a family learn to cope and interact in healthier ways, and we learned how to change our family dynamic to one that is focused on validation, health, and positive growth instead of just being in "survival mode." After almost 4 months at SN, our son sees himself as a leader instead of a victim. He is now thriving in school and has learned great coping mechanisms at SN and beyond. He has a job, is on track to graduate, and wants go to college. We cannot say enough good things about the program. Thank you! read more

If you are reading this, trust me it's going to be ok. As a parent, I can honestly tell you our experience with Steve and his amazing team was very positive in every aspect. His team takes care of the kids, but more importantly, the parents, too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, positive or negative. I can only tell you from a parent perspective that you found a place that hopefully gets your son, but most importantly, your family, the help it needs. I enjoyed the parent calls with Mary because we are all having a tough time. They provide an extensive library of books and podcasts, as well. It felt ok to know we aren't alone and that there are people like Steve's team that care and challenge you to challenge yourself. Mary is wonderful and very helpful. The On-Trail with Alex was very rewarding and powerful for all of us. He was so supportive. I hope if you choose the program, you get Alex. Super amazing guy. If you're on the fence on the Wilderness concept and came upon 2nd Nature, it's not hard to call and talk to Steve and his team. They helped make the unknown tolerable over the most difficult time in my life. Trust me...it's a journey we all could learn from. Best of luck to you and your family. You're gonna be ok. You will....we all will read more

When our son with ASD-1 fell into a relentless cycle of social challenges, anxiety, depression, he was becoming threatening to himself and others. 2 inpatient psychiatric stays, and countless individual/family/group therapy sessionswere totally ineffective at helping him. We were desperate, but extremely skeptical about wilderness therapy, but as physicians, we delved into the medical literature, and found ample scientific evidence that kids in our sons situation really benefit from wilderness therapy, and are in fact, SAFER in wilderness therapy then at home during a meltdown. we had been through many therapists at that point, but Dr. Steve Debroise was the most knowledgeable, clinically sophisticated therapist that we had come across. He was crucial for our son's improvement, and he helped us have a much deeper understanding of our son's issues and how we could support him. Finally, the parent support system at 2N is outstanding. read more

Hi there. My name is Vic and I was a client of second nature when I was 15 and a half years old. I am now almost 38 years old. I was one of their toughest cases and my counselor was Devan Glissmeyer. Second nature really helped me break some habits and some cycles as an adolescent. I didn't think much of the program at the time but now looking back, it really saved me from getting into a lot of trouble as a juvenile delinquent. My parents took the leap and had me transported to second nature in the middle of the night. It was a sheer wake up call but it started a 2-year process that changed my life forever. Second nature has amazing staff that really care about their students and about their well-being and their recovery. I have recommended this program to at least 10 people over the past 20 years. They have the skills and the means necessary to really shock the system and to make the changes needed so that those kids can have a better life. I just met Devan after 22 years for dinner last week. We have been in contact this entire time from the age of 15 to 38 years old. He is a dear friend of mine and an contributor to society. Today, I have a wonderful life, and amazing partner, four children about the age that I was when I went to treatment, all of them are thriving. I have two jobs and I have a successful business. Second nature does work and will save your kids life!! You would be so lucky to be able to go to Second Nature. Vik Chawla Class of '99 Bay Area, CA read more

Second Nature Family Therapy - Educational Services Near Me - Duchesne, Utah

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Updated: We picked up our 14-year-old son last week from Second Nature. He is doing so well, and he has returned to being the good-natured, capable, and funny person he used to be --- except more mature, confident, and emotionally communicative. This is in contrast to the relatively rapid spiral that he and we were in for the months before he left, when he was barely going to school, getting in trouble when he was there, often smoking weed/THCA, and depressed and angry at home. We are so proud of him, and grateful to Second Nature for helping us to work on our relationship with him. It is a program not just for students, but for the whole family. I had a lot of qualms about wilderness programs, and had read and heard a good deal on the internet that concerned me. I did not know who to trust, and we felt that we had to do something as things were getting out of control at home. Our experience has been that the people at Second Nature, especially including our son's therapist, are very caring and respectful to the teens and the families -- so much moreso than many at our son's school or some of his former local treatment providers. I think that Second Nature's program is far preferable to the locked residential treatment centers which would have been the only alternative: it is positive, relational, and much better supervised and safer than in a building where students could be alone with each other or with a single staff. In Second Nature's on-trail program, we camped with our son and a staff member for two nights and three days. We also met his group before we went to our on-trail site. While camping isn't easy, it definitely isn't abusive -- and there are aspects that are fun: especially the relationships our son formed with the staff and other students. The kids are given plenty of food and water, including in their own packs. They get a good variety and quantity of food. Yes, some nights are just beans & rice, but others are pita pizzas, or meat night, or bacon & broccoli mac & cheese. They also get treats now and then, like Burger King - or earning a big bag of Skittles for their fire-starting skills. They get camp stools to sit on. The groups have good communications with base and water drops of large containers. Yes, they are camping, so they do have to poop in a hole that they dig for the camp, with a tarp screen and not in view of everyone. We did all of this in our days there. The field staff rotates on and off for a week each, and does everything the teens do. The primary therapist also stays out with the group for two days a week (with an overnight), and another therapist also leads groups. It is true that they hike with pretty decent-sized camping packs: though I (a female) had a pack the same size when I was the size of a lot of the teens and walked with it for miles when I was younger. They aren't strip searched on arrival. They were super conservative about medical issues, ensuring that our son was well treated and not hiking when an issue came up for him. The non-therapist staff is caring and skillful. Like many summer camps, this program posts weekly photos of the teens on the parent portal. Parents can also see everything I said above from the pictures. It is clear from those photos that they are well cared for and supervised, and that a number of things on the internet are not true (I have no information as to whether they were in the past.). The program also hosted a field staff meeting for parents, where they talked about life in the field, and the therapists have weekly meetings with parents. I can't imagine my son would have engage sitting just in a residential talk-therapy setting. A PHP did not work before he came. Here, he learned (remembered) that he can do hard things. It gave him wins in a structured setting with patient and understanding staff. He has the well-earned confidence of mastering this setting. I know that some times former participants later have come to view wilderness programs as abusive. And for those who will not go willingly, of course getting pulled away from home is hard and at least somewhat traumatic. At the same time, I believe there would have been much more trauma in not doing it. Staying in a bedroom and spiraling without coping skills, landing in a hospital (for mental or physical injury), getting psychosis from all the weed, landing in a locked RTC, landing in jail: all of these have trauma. But here, I also see learning skills that will help for a lifetime. I see a level of safety we could not give at home. And I see hope, for him and us. read more

Will leave you with cptsd and horrible experiences for life. If you are thinking of sending your kid away to treatment. Realize it's gonna cost them your trust and give them life long trauma. As a tti survivor... I've had friends pass away after programs, people get in to bad relationships but no one "got better" in my opinion everyone was so traumatized shit just got worse. This place needs to be shut down and all places like this do, I was strip searched Had to pee with out toilet paper, given 3 undies per weak and my pack weight hurt my back so bad I went to the doctor and they took an xray and my spine was so tight and straight(which isn't normal) so they put me on weight restriction to on what I would carry. read more

This is an incredible organization to work for! I've been an outdoor and sustainability educator for over a decade and I just made the leap to become a field instructor for Second Nature (2N). I've had many friends over the years work for 2N and they have had great experiences. I love their leadership, ownership and support structure. Their Benifits and pay lead this industry. I just finished the 7 day filed instructor training and I am now happily employed by 2N and look forward to a year of adventure, challenge and growth! read more

Second Nature Family Therapy - Here's me and my new co-instructors after our field training! - Educational Services Near Me - Duchesne, Utah

I was abused here. Second nature will tout they changed. Here's some pictures from a staff member. Your children are being handled by unqualified young adults in the desert of Utah. Rarely getting therapy if one time a week and my therapist was a perpetrator. I didn't get therapy for awhile because the therapists were marrying each other and on their honeymoon. In my experience these people are barely out of high school, abusers, active drug users, and are in relationships "in the field." Food and water are rationed. Children's sexual abuse is used against one another (pining others against one another - whose was worse.) I contracted h-pylori - I was restrained for hours, my head was hit into the ground by a male staff member, I was made to sleep wrapped in a tarp (unable to move) between staff of the opposite sex of me. I amongst countless others was tortured at SNWP. I can go on ... Honestly it's comical that they have blocked a previous yelp review, blocked me on Facebook - yet I've managed to make it to congress to shut you people down. Caregivers, survivors, parents, lawmakers, teachers, attorneys, and therapists have banded together to stop you from continuing to abuse children despite multiple efforts on your end to rebrand, backtrack, coverup, lie, etc. if you care about children and families you will shut down. read more

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Second Nature transformed our son. We had reached a hopeless impasse. The whole team, in particular our son's therapist Steve Debois, helped our son surpass any expectations we had. He has returned to us a mature, confident young man. We owe Second Nature so much and are grateful beyond words. I hope you never need a wilderness program for your child. Second Nature changed our lives immeasurably. read more

This place is a disaster, stay away. Our granddaughter was here for a month when she was abruptly asked to leave for being too difficult (if she was easy, she would have never been there, she would have been at home continuing at public high school and seeing her therapist). While at Second Nature, she had almost no assessment and no usable mentoring or therapy. They charged us a fortune for the experience and now refuse to engage to talk about our disappointment and demands for a refund. Worst of all, this encounter has used up a chunk of our available financial resources and limits how we can proceed from here. Don't get started with these folks. They are heartless. read more

Can't say enough good things about the wilderness therapy program. We entrusted them with our son, who was having substance abuse problems, and the program helped provide him with social and intellectual tools to help him understand himself, and to think about how he should be living his life. He came out of the program thoughtful, mature, and serious about his priorities. It really opened him up emotionally, as well. He's much better now about sharing his feelings, and dealing with negative emotions in a responsible and clear-headed way. He learned things that will serve him well for the rest of his life. read more

Only send your kid here if they belong in jail pretty much. I went to second nature in 2017 and still have nightmares about it to this day. I got very sick midway through the program and pooped my pants and sleeping bag all night long and we had a big hike on the mountain the next day. I could barely stand up straight and was almost passing out due to feeling so ill. I literally begged the supply run people to just drive me to the next location because I thought I was going to die during the upcoming hike. (They are extremely intense.) After repeatedly being told no, I was crying and had to hike while literally still pooping my pants. Halfway through the hike I started throwing up everywhere maybe around 7 times on the side of this mountain. Luckily my group distributed my pack weight between everyone and they forced me to finish the hike with literal poop and vomit all over me. I've never felt like I was on the verge of death more than at this program and this was certainly not a safe therapeutic environment for any kid. You always hear stories about kids that are sent to these programs I don't know why parents do this to kids that are literally just hormonal and stupid. Learn to grow a pair and understand money doesn't solve everything. You can't just throw money at a program to "fix" your kid. On top of this "educational consultants" are heavily incentivized to send your kid here, wether they need it or not. They get paid from referrals among other corrupt business deals. That's why 95% of the students end up going to yet another program afterwards. It's all business. "When you punish a person for dreaming his dream don't expect him to thank or forgive you." read more

I recognize that reviews of a place where minors are sent against their will by desperate parents fearing for their safety are going to be a little skewed. On the one side are parents who often have no where else to turn and are truly trying to help their child who is often very resistant to traditional therapy and needs something more strict. On the other is educational therapy consultants who have a very ($$$$) vested interest in helping get these children into somewhere safe. As a parent now myself I can see why this is a tricky situation. That being said, as an attendant of second nature years ago I can say flatly and without hesitation, it is child abuse. I am 35 years old and still have not fully recovered. While the therapists are licensed, the staff - often young college aged - are minimally certified in wilderness safety and CPR and certainly not with the knowledge and experience in the wellbeing of seriously ill children. If your child is so ill that traditional therapy is not enough for their safety, I find it difficult to think that this type of care is better. Kids meet with their therapist only once a week, and the therapist is charged with the mental wellbeing of the entire group. The numbers don't add up here. Correction for children is almost exclusively physical - either hiking (often in a tight circle), packing and unpacking your bag several times, physical restraint, and withholding warm food. The psychological correction is often various forms of group intimidation or humiliation. If your child refuses to hike, for example, their peers will be made to hike in a circle in front of your child until your child gives up from the peer pressure. While this is effective in getting your child to hike, I do question the underlying significance here and again point to - if you child is in such a difficult place, is this the right solution for them? Lastly, the organization (which is owned and operated by a company that owns several other residential treatment facilities) serves as only an assessment program for where to send your child next. Unsuspecting parents will be told that instead of sending their child home, the child needs another round of therapy at another facility. In my year, 95% of patients went from Second Nature to another facility. Educational consultants receive a commission not only from Second Nature, but also from subsequent facilities (often, but not always owned by Second Nature's parent company). Certainly Second Nature will respond to this review with a canned statement about HIPPA Guidelines or "My personal experience" - instead, and if they are to be believed over my review, I would love to hear what percentage of the dues are paid to educational consultants for their referral, and what certifications the staff (not the therapists) hold. I know some of the staff personally, and I can assure, its purely wilderness safety related, not mental health related. Lastly, I would love to hear what percentage of patients go from Second Nature to another facility afterwards, what percentage of those patients go to a facility owned by Second Nature's parent company, and what referral fee Second Nature is paid for the remaining patients who attend non-Second Nature owned facilities. Until these questions can be answered, it seems clear that this might be more than just my experience. read more

I was sent here in 2000 between my jr and sr year of HS because I was a bad kid, underage drinking and had an attitude. I can't quite remember dates or much because I've blocked it out until recently. But now as mom to 3, small business owner and 40 year old woman I realize the trauma that has followed me for 20+ years from this experience. This is not the right place to send children. I can assure you that. I've struggled since the day I left with anxiety and PTSD, and nothing about this place truly helped me. read more

In my case, this place functioned as a typical troubled teen industry money grab that exploits parents with abundant resources and their children. It remains a traumatic experience that I don't think I will ever truly heal from. I was 19, and told a dozen lies to get me to go to this program (if you're an adult they have to convince you, as opposed to kidnap you which they are legally allowed to for minors). If I had known the truth, I would've chosen homelessness, which was presented as my alternative. We ate tuna packets and mission tortillas for lunch, bathed once a week with a cold bucket of water, slept on the ground under plastic tarps, saw our therapist once a week, and were charged 10's of thousands of dollars for this. Where is that money going??? Do not trust the educational consultant who's value is driven by recommending expensive specialized care for your child, they might not care too much about the long term side-effects of the "care" that they're paid to recommend to you. read more

I attended this program when I was 19 as it was the "best option". Long story short, I cannot stress how traumatizing and damaging this program is. It changed my life drastically and not for the better. They say the program isn't for everyone and they try to be respectful and safe but it couldn't be further from the truth. The team of people behind this company have no business getting involved in something as important as adolescent development. If you work there, you should be ashamed of yourself. How do you live with yourself knowing what is happening to thousands of children? I can't say anyone I entered the program with did better afterwards, many people I met as a result of this program are no longer living... they weren't helped. They were further damaged by a disingenuous company making a cash grab from stressed families in search of guidance. If this company is operating/training at its highest standards I would be curious to what they feel poor standards look like. Avoid at all costs. read more

We sent our teen to Second Nature for 3 months, about two years ago. It was one of the hardest decisions that we have ever made as parents. Our teen was in crisis - suffering from anxiety and depression and suicidal. We chose this program based on recommendations from several clinicians, discussions with several parents whose teens had been in wilderness programs, and our own research about the field clinicians at Second Nature. This program saved our teen's life and we would make the same decision to send them there today. Through their time there, our teen learned that they can do very hard things and get through it. They learned that they can be responsible and self-sufficient. Most importantly, they learned that their life is valuable and that they have many things to live for and much to give to the world. This program - and no other program, therapy, school, or institution - will "fix" your child. Teens who go to wilderness programs should be going there to remove them from the harmful distractions that prevent them from making growth and progress that is essential to their staying alive. Our child was depressed and suicidal. They had attempted suicide multiple times and had exhausted therapists, psychiatrists, and in-patient hospital programs. DBT, CBT, and other therapies as well as psych evals and different medications were not helping. We kept in touch with our child while at Second Nature through letters and phone calls. They came home from the experience and were incredibly happy about everything they learned and how great the outdoor experience was (our teen is someone who loves the outdoors - to hike, camp, etc.). Second Nature helped our teen transition to a new school near our home that has been a great match, based on what Second Nature recommended. Our teen has adjusted and are thriving academically and socially. Our teen's initial positive response to wilderness has faded, and they now conclude (after reading reviews online and consulting with friends who have done other wilderness programs) that the outdoor elements, long hikes, and intense physical challenges of wilderness were abusive. We agree that this experience was incredibly challenging and will have a lasting impact on them. However, they were fed, had warm shelter, and were always accompanied by experienced, responsible adults. The counseling piece was also transformative for our teen and they are now continuing to explore issues they uncovered while there through individual and family therapy, despite their insistence on the trauma of the experience. Again, the experience of Second Nature was profound and it saved our teen's life. I would highly recommend reaching out to Second Nature for a conversation and ask to speak to former families if you want first-hand feedback from people who have been through the process (not just online reviews from folks who "think" they know about the experience). read more

I went here back in 2020, so I can't speak for how it is today. I didn't have a terrible experience like others have claimed, but I'm not denying that there is some weird stuff going on. A lot of people talk about how the staff aren't qualified for handling vulnerable conversations, and I totally agree with that. On the other hand, I wouldn't say all the staff are bad at handling things, but there was definitely ones who I questioned if they even wanted to work there. My experience with my therapist wasn't great. Even though I was forcefully put there, I did know I had problems and wanted to work on it. I personally found no changes after spending 3 months there and returned to old patterns within a year of coming back. All the people I have talked to from my group also seem to be the same way, if not worse. The therapist I had wasn't very good at working with me, I'm not sure how others have felt. One thing that felt weird to me was someone reading their impact letter on the verge of a panic attack and the therapist did not do anything to calm him down and actually tried telling him to just read it. I understand that therapy is uncomfortable, but I don't think that's fair when you have to read this vulnerable letter in front of everyone who is there and when just met them. Along with that, there seemed to be some favoritism between staff and the kids. Some kids seemed to be targeted more than others. And yes some of it made sense, but one of the kids I knew had words put into his mouth from a staff member, when he never said them. He ended up getting in trouble for it, but still left soon after. It just doesn't seem right that certain staff members couldn't handle their own emotions, when this a mental health treatment program. Raising voices and yelling were a common occurrence, even if unnecessary. It just seems that a lot of the staff were fed up with the kids. There was fun moments though, when we everyone was behaving well. The day hikes were unbelievable and it was so beautiful there. It was fun coming up with our own games too. However, I'm not sure if I would recommend sending your kid here. Yes, it may work for some, but I think a lot of the time the reason people "do better" after is fear of going back. Especially if they were transported there unwillingly. If your kid has serious problems, I do think it would be better than a long term residential or impatient program, but if they are not completely out of control, I'd recommend personalized therapy and maybe IOP, but I haven't had much success with IOP in the past. I find that personalized therapy has been more helpful because I can go at my own pace and am not forced into doing it. It's a better transition into therapy than directly sending your kid away and creating a lot of internal guilt. And I think it is a better way to maintain trust with them. A lot of people come out of these programs just to go back to old ways, but way more secretive about it and I honestly think that is more harmful. Also, it can create resentments between a kid and a parent. I mean how would you feel if one day you were taken out of your home and sent to the middle of the desert. Not great. And with that, I remember how terrifying it was not knowing how long I could be there. They never mentioned it until your last week. I was told many different things from staff. Some said I would be there 4 weeks, some said 6 weeks, but I later found out that 10-14 weeks is the normal amount. This is just my experience, so it may different for other people, but I would keep what I said in mind. read more

My son was put into 2nd Nature when we realized the path he was on was leading toward incarceration or worse. It was really hard,not gonna lie, but he spent almost 4 months out in wilderness over a lot of a Utah winter. He went from there to Chery gulch for two years. Along the journey, he found himself. He found hobbies, an ability to look at situations rationally, and came back home eventually and finished high school and just started college out of state. He believes that the program at 2nd nature was a large part of him starting his turnaround. I wasn't there but I can take his word for it. It is darn expensive, and I feel for families where the child is sent home from the program without financial recourse. Not sure what I would have done in that situation either. But if that isn't happening, I can at least say that in our family's story, 2nd Nature made a big difference. read more

I sent my son to Second Nature on May 10, 2021. He was suicidal, combative, depressed, and extremely unhappy. He had been skipping school, he had PTSD, car crashes, addicted to drugs and was hanging with the wrong crowd. He had been in therapy for years and had several hospital stays and nothing was working. He continued to be suicidal and snuck out and put himself in very dangerous situations. Sending him to wilderness therapy was the hardest but best decision of my life. I felt that he would die if he didn't get the treatment he needed. He was complicated, both with mental health, addiction and gender identity issues, so Second Nature was a no brainer. He was in Fred's gender inclusive group and although he wasn't happy about going there, he quickly realized it was the best thing for him. The staff was really caring and took excellent physical care of him. He had a few trips to the hospital, and they handled it without a hitch. The nursing staff came onsite weekly, and they took daily blister and bug bite checks. They were very careful about making sure he drank enough water. He liked the food and really began to enjoy cooking. The staff was excellent. Fred got him to see things as no therapist ever had. He trusted Fred and he was able to really help him to understand himself better. He still talks about Luna and Ryan with great fondness. The communication was excellent. I always got a prompt response to my questions and was always treated professionally by all of the staff. It is imperative for the parents to do the work. Read books, attend the parent support group, participate in family coaching and therapy. Listen to your child's therapist. I got to spend the night with him in the field and I really got to see just what it was like for him. As we gazed at the stars at night and my son really talked to me for the first time in 2 years, I knew his life had changed for the better. My son just graduated high school with a 3.5 and is looking forward to college and his future. That would not have been possible without Second Nature. Don't believe the bad reviews. Most of them are written by people who haven't been there or put in the hard work that wilderness requires. Second Nature saved my son's life and my relationship with him. I am eternally grateful. Lucy C. read more

If you are reading these reviews while trying to make a decision to send your child here, then do yourself a service, read all of the reviews bearing in mind that most (if not all) of the angry ones are from former students. And I mean those one star reviewers no disrespect, they are entitled to their opinion. As a parent who sent their child here, it's also important to know that you, as a parent you "get" to do some work too, and, in my experience, that is an important part of the program. We sent our child here almost 5 years ago. Making that decision was incredibly difficult, but, ha, so was life at home by the time we got to a place where we were considering it! The day that he left was the hardest day of my life, and I have no regrets. My child has not written a review, but recently at a dinner a friend of ours said to him "Yeah, we didn't really understand why they(us, the parents) had to do that, I mean, you were smoking a little weed." and he replied "No, I was being a total and complete asshole." He was in pain, and I didn't know how to help him any longer. I was engaging him in endless no win fights and I was so scared. I am grateful every day that we made the decision that we did. The only downside to this program is the cost. And we decided to continue treatment recommended by them which I also do not regret. This had, and still has, a not-insignificant impact on our lives. And even with that, no regrets. (I have heard since that there are non-profits maybe that can help defray costs, but, not sure on that one.) read more

I don't know what to say about this program except THANK YOU. The hardest thing a parent can do is have the courage to hire two big guys to take their teen to a wilderness program before he becomes a danger to himself and others. We started the process backwards, finding this program before finding an educational consultant(the folks who guide benumbed parents thru this healing process). They provided (and we paid for) everything he needed for wilderness. Most stays average 6-8 weeks. Unbeknownst to our son at first, we received weekly updates and pictures. The first letter home was horrific, full of vitriol and anger on the one hand and begging to come home on the other. We exchanged letters until we could talk to him. However, as weeks turned into months (3 months in total), our son turned the corner. We saw a picture of him with a smile on his face... and we felt hope. We spoke every week. At the end of his stay, our son taught us how to make camp, and we talked for hours about what he learned. We still talk about some of those lessons today. He was there in 2012. We know most of the current professional and admin staff and recommend them without hesitation. Have courage. The only thing you can do when your family is walking through hell is to keep walking until you come out the other side. read more

When we sent our son to Second Nature in 2020, we were terrified about his future. We had tried therapy and punishment, but we were afraid we were going to lose him. Second Nature seemed like the best hope for his recovery, so my wife and I arranged transport with a professional company through an educational consultant and sent him to Utah for the last three months of his senior year. When selling this to us, the consultant emphasized the positive outcomes from a recovery standpoint, the time for introspection and the regular in-field therapy that our son would receive. The consultant said they looked at several places and had picked Second Nature out especially for our son's needs. They also said that there are limited spots and that we needed to act fast to get him there. We were worried, so we acted fast. What the educational consultant did not talk about was the trauma associated with transport, or the tactics used by the troubled teen industry to get vulnerable parents to pay exorbitant amounts of money to try help their children. They play up the benefits of therapy in the remote setting of wilderness, but they don't talk about the shaming nature of the therapy that is designed to "fix" your child. There are articles and internet posts from wilderness survivors describing the long term effects of this type of program. While sobriety is often the outcome of a wilderness program, it is certainly not without significant cost to the child and the relationship with his parents. I strongly suggest that any parent considering sending a child to Second Nature to research the benefits and the risks of making this choice. It is not apparent at the time from those advising you to sign up, but the dangers of this choice are real. read more

My grandson was ripped from his bed in the early morning and sent to Second Nature. He was a smart good natured boy that loved sports, school and people. He was a normal teenager though, parents were going through a divorce and he was dealing with that and all that comes with it, but if you met him you would immediately love him. Everyone did! When the family found out, we were very distressed and we contacted the camp immediately with no success or honesty. We were told we could write to him and guaranteed that letters and cards would get to him but absolutely no other information. Later found out that not one letter or card did he ever receive. The staff was very evasive and it became clear that they would only speak with the person paying the bills. They lied over and over and did not care; we looked up their history and they were rated extremely poor for pretty much everything on many different sites. We investigated further to try to find anyone that would talk to us and continually found terrible things about this camp from past resident reviews and even from past employees who wrote about the camp. The truth is that my grandson was used as a labourer, minimal food, slept in a tent in the middle of winter and denied basics. Therapy sessions were once a week for an hour, and we later found out that he just agreed with whatever they wanted so that he could get out. They would not even let us communicate with him over Christmas. Yes we know that the parent that sent him there was to blame as well for this experience, but the camp was also at fault as they only cared about collecting their money. No consideration at all that so many family and friends were calling in concerned that he should not be there? So how could this help if they were only getting one side of this situation. He finally got out after almost 3 months, and the fact that he was going to be 18 soon, but he has had a tough road in front of him. He is broken, withdrawn, lost his confidence and in therapy to try to understand why this was done to him, but he is slowly gaining his zest for life back. This is what this camp did to him. DON'T send anyone you love there if you truly love them. read more

Thank you for responding. The point of the girls seeming pretty normal in reflection just made me feel like these wilderness experiences will take anyone, regardless of the extremity of this type of therapy. This, to me, is a sign that it's more about money than helping struggling youth. The clients this program caters to to are people with money. Adolescents who would actually NEED and benefit from this type of therapy, would most likely never ever come from a family who could afford it, even though the overhead to run such a program seems relatively low in cost. Red flag: is this really about healing troubled kids? I wanted to share my story as I am a successful a level headed person, yet I feel like this experience took from me more than it gave. And for the amount of money my parents paid, it should have never been the car. read more